v***@at.BioStrategist.dot.dot.com
2024-06-07 00:34:59 UTC
The OCA isn't as Russian as it or others think. It is really Central
European and its counterpart in Europe is already under Constantinople. The
bulk of the OCA was really only under Moscow from 1892 to 1917 because the
Vatican's New York bishop, John Ireland mistreated the Central European
Byzantine Rite Catholics of the Susquehanna Valley under Slovak bishop Alexis
Toth of Wilkes-Barre. Unfortunately many of their older churches still bear
"Russian Orthodox Greek Catholic" cornerstones even though it seems most of
the parishioners are of Czech or Slovenian origin. In antiquity the
Carpathians were Celtic and they even invaded Sicily (3c BC) and Delphi (2c
BC) to go east and become the biblical Galatians (who spoke Celtic until 7c
AD and are the ancestors of many blond, blue eyed Asia Minor Greeks and
Turks). Slavs and Celts both derive from Scythia. Askenazi is cognate with
Scythian as King David had red hair. The Attics of Athens were Scythian
Jovan (Ionian) who then colonised and Hellenised Scythia for wheat; It is
indeterminate if the Greeks influenced the Slavs more or the other way
around. And many Central Europeans are also part German. And now Central
Europe is largely in the EU and its Orthodox Christians would be under
Constantinople should Turkey come to its sences and join the EU so that it
can better control its own extremists. I once asked an OCA friend his ethnic
heritage and he said "depends what point of history". Perhaps they should
change those old signs to "Slavonic Orthodox Greek Catholic" instead. You
would be surprised how many who wanted to attend an OCA church do not enter
because of those signs, especially during the last decade. In the 1990s Serbs
hid as Russians and now Russians conceal themselves a Czechs. Wouldn't it be
easier to just say Slavonic?
Further, some Greeks, Romanians, Georgians et al are repelled by the idea
that they would attend a "Russian" church due to the behavior of Ignatiev,
Nesselrode and Porfiry Uspensky via pan-Slavism. My own maternal family was
scattered across the globe by Bulgarian Comitadges at the urging of
Nesselrode and Ignatiev. Never mind that the only real Russian imperialists
were actually German, viz Catherine and Nesselrode. Much of America's
Midwest was developed by Central European refugees of 1848 Russian
suppression of revolutions they feared would turn Napoleonic. Instead the
Hegelian Central European left freed America's slaves and formed its
industrial labor unions, leaving their conservative extremist cousins to
plague Russia's borders. And, yes, Ignatiev (whose great grand son is a
leader of Trudeau's party) was Georgian. Although this was debunked by Jones
(JTS59), Napoleon (p 31 Napoleon's Egypt Juan Cole 2007) and Nesselrode both
felt conceding to monophysites would convert islam against the Ottomans.
That is why Uspensky deHellenised the Antiochians and almost Jerusalem. And
the Aramaic canard is debunked by Talmudist Rabbi Yehuda HaNasi "Why use
Syriac in Eretz Israel? Speak either Hebrew or Greek!" (Bava Kama 82b-83a)
Not only did Constantinople never accept "Third Rome", they also feel
diaspora is under them via 4ecsy28. But the Russian fascination with
"Oriental Orthodox" produced extremism like Skpotsy circumcising their women
and exasperated the calendar change. Peter the Great greatly curtailed
monasticism for a hundred and fifty years, after which Russians became
fascinated enough to pay the Turks for serious Athos privileges in 1839 and
even the expulsion of many Greeks and the start of much of today's monastic
fanaticism.
And let's face it, ever since Putin crashed Siberian Governor Alexander
Lebed's helicopter in April 2002, it became increasingly difficult for other
Orthodox to tell their American colleagues and superiors they had anything to
do with Russians. I admit, for me the anti-Putin moment came two years later
when Paul Klebnikov was killed. I revered Klebnikov's writings on Stolypin
and I had also written for the same NYC Tribune as he. If Yeltsin had asked
Ukraine to become part of the Russian federation, they would probably have
accepted. So it really comes down to the deterioration of Russian democracy
after Yeltsin. Like Klebnikov, I really believed in the democratic
capitalist vision of Stolypin and Yeltsin. Maybe Putin alone isn't the main
culprit as his Praetorian military was afraid of losing business in Iraq and
Iran and so didn't take kindly at Dubya looking into Putin's soul. Mideast
arms trade kept Putin's military and their families from starving after the
end of the Cold War. And Putin read Marshal Goldman's Putin Petrostate
disclosing that Bill Casey got the Saudis to crash oil to crash Russia out of
Afghanistan. Those who complain about "deep state" here should consider how
much worse it is in other countries. I also blame Trump's fellow John Birch
Society members of Russian origin who went back to Russia and agitated
against membership in global organisations like the World Bank, IMF, WTO, EU
and NATO. Recently Putin has been claiming Russia wasn't invited, but the
fault was really in the other direction. Trump's father was present along
with Fred Koch at JBS founding. In college I had come into contact with JBS
and found the denoted national views of the central organisation were much
milder and politically sanitised than the extremist connotations of the
ground level members its repuation attracts. Unfortunately the same
attraction selection problem has also beset Orthodox Christianity. Just
before the pandemic, I met someone who had trampled through Buddhism and
Judaism and wanted to turn my local OCA chuch into a chapter of the NRA.
European and its counterpart in Europe is already under Constantinople. The
bulk of the OCA was really only under Moscow from 1892 to 1917 because the
Vatican's New York bishop, John Ireland mistreated the Central European
Byzantine Rite Catholics of the Susquehanna Valley under Slovak bishop Alexis
Toth of Wilkes-Barre. Unfortunately many of their older churches still bear
"Russian Orthodox Greek Catholic" cornerstones even though it seems most of
the parishioners are of Czech or Slovenian origin. In antiquity the
Carpathians were Celtic and they even invaded Sicily (3c BC) and Delphi (2c
BC) to go east and become the biblical Galatians (who spoke Celtic until 7c
AD and are the ancestors of many blond, blue eyed Asia Minor Greeks and
Turks). Slavs and Celts both derive from Scythia. Askenazi is cognate with
Scythian as King David had red hair. The Attics of Athens were Scythian
Jovan (Ionian) who then colonised and Hellenised Scythia for wheat; It is
indeterminate if the Greeks influenced the Slavs more or the other way
around. And many Central Europeans are also part German. And now Central
Europe is largely in the EU and its Orthodox Christians would be under
Constantinople should Turkey come to its sences and join the EU so that it
can better control its own extremists. I once asked an OCA friend his ethnic
heritage and he said "depends what point of history". Perhaps they should
change those old signs to "Slavonic Orthodox Greek Catholic" instead. You
would be surprised how many who wanted to attend an OCA church do not enter
because of those signs, especially during the last decade. In the 1990s Serbs
hid as Russians and now Russians conceal themselves a Czechs. Wouldn't it be
easier to just say Slavonic?
Further, some Greeks, Romanians, Georgians et al are repelled by the idea
that they would attend a "Russian" church due to the behavior of Ignatiev,
Nesselrode and Porfiry Uspensky via pan-Slavism. My own maternal family was
scattered across the globe by Bulgarian Comitadges at the urging of
Nesselrode and Ignatiev. Never mind that the only real Russian imperialists
were actually German, viz Catherine and Nesselrode. Much of America's
Midwest was developed by Central European refugees of 1848 Russian
suppression of revolutions they feared would turn Napoleonic. Instead the
Hegelian Central European left freed America's slaves and formed its
industrial labor unions, leaving their conservative extremist cousins to
plague Russia's borders. And, yes, Ignatiev (whose great grand son is a
leader of Trudeau's party) was Georgian. Although this was debunked by Jones
(JTS59), Napoleon (p 31 Napoleon's Egypt Juan Cole 2007) and Nesselrode both
felt conceding to monophysites would convert islam against the Ottomans.
That is why Uspensky deHellenised the Antiochians and almost Jerusalem. And
the Aramaic canard is debunked by Talmudist Rabbi Yehuda HaNasi "Why use
Syriac in Eretz Israel? Speak either Hebrew or Greek!" (Bava Kama 82b-83a)
Not only did Constantinople never accept "Third Rome", they also feel
diaspora is under them via 4ecsy28. But the Russian fascination with
"Oriental Orthodox" produced extremism like Skpotsy circumcising their women
and exasperated the calendar change. Peter the Great greatly curtailed
monasticism for a hundred and fifty years, after which Russians became
fascinated enough to pay the Turks for serious Athos privileges in 1839 and
even the expulsion of many Greeks and the start of much of today's monastic
fanaticism.
And let's face it, ever since Putin crashed Siberian Governor Alexander
Lebed's helicopter in April 2002, it became increasingly difficult for other
Orthodox to tell their American colleagues and superiors they had anything to
do with Russians. I admit, for me the anti-Putin moment came two years later
when Paul Klebnikov was killed. I revered Klebnikov's writings on Stolypin
and I had also written for the same NYC Tribune as he. If Yeltsin had asked
Ukraine to become part of the Russian federation, they would probably have
accepted. So it really comes down to the deterioration of Russian democracy
after Yeltsin. Like Klebnikov, I really believed in the democratic
capitalist vision of Stolypin and Yeltsin. Maybe Putin alone isn't the main
culprit as his Praetorian military was afraid of losing business in Iraq and
Iran and so didn't take kindly at Dubya looking into Putin's soul. Mideast
arms trade kept Putin's military and their families from starving after the
end of the Cold War. And Putin read Marshal Goldman's Putin Petrostate
disclosing that Bill Casey got the Saudis to crash oil to crash Russia out of
Afghanistan. Those who complain about "deep state" here should consider how
much worse it is in other countries. I also blame Trump's fellow John Birch
Society members of Russian origin who went back to Russia and agitated
against membership in global organisations like the World Bank, IMF, WTO, EU
and NATO. Recently Putin has been claiming Russia wasn't invited, but the
fault was really in the other direction. Trump's father was present along
with Fred Koch at JBS founding. In college I had come into contact with JBS
and found the denoted national views of the central organisation were much
milder and politically sanitised than the extremist connotations of the
ground level members its repuation attracts. Unfortunately the same
attraction selection problem has also beset Orthodox Christianity. Just
before the pandemic, I met someone who had trampled through Buddhism and
Judaism and wanted to turn my local OCA chuch into a chapter of the NRA.
--
Vasos Panagiotopoulos panix.com/~vjp2/vasos.htm
---{Nothing herein constitutes advice. Everything fully disclaimed.}---
Vasos Panagiotopoulos panix.com/~vjp2/vasos.htm
---{Nothing herein constitutes advice. Everything fully disclaimed.}---