Discussion:
Thank God for Ann Coulter
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AGGreen
2006-06-11 18:16:17 UTC
Permalink
Godless by Ann Coulter
Review By Ben Shapiro

Jun 9, 2006


"Liberals love to boast that they are not 'religious,' which is what one
would expect to hear from the state-sanctioned religion," writes Ann Coulter
at the beginning of her new tour de force, Godless: The Church of
Liberalism.

Coulter backs up her provocative thesis with her usual biting wit and
cutting humor. Instead of focusing on the presence of leftist bias in the
media (Slander) or the left's rewriting of history in pursuit of its
oft-treacherous ends (Treason), Coulter hones in on the basic ideals
inspiring the ideology of liberalism. As Coulter strips liberalism down to
its bare essentials, it becomes evident that, as she puts it, liberalism "is
no longer susceptible to reduction ad absurdum arguments. Before you can
come up with a comical take on their worldview, some college professor has
already written an article advancing the idea." Liberalism is indeed a
Godless religion-and, as Coulter demonstrates, the secular religion of the
left is a religion bereft of moral fiber.

It's not that the atheism of the secular left makes Coulter unhappy. It's
that they lie about their religion. Jews don't pretend that Judaism is a
scientific theory; Christians don't pretend that Christianity is provable in
a laboratory. Liberals, however, pretend that their religion is provable and
intellectually superior, while at the same time labeling the traditionally
religious backwards buffoons. "I don't particularly care if liberals believe
in God," she writes. "In fact, I would be crestfallen to discover any
liberals in heaven. So fine, rage against God, but how about being honest
about it?"

Coulter jumps into her expose with alacrity. Her second chapter, "The
Passion of the Liberal: Thou Shalt Not Punish The Perp," reminds us that
Coulter isn't simply a terrific writer who makes it impossible to drink
while reading her work (this produces the famed "Coulter milk-out-the-nose
phenomenon"). She's also a legal scholar.

Coulter gives a brief and compelling history of Supreme Court idiocy with
regard to criminal law. The absurd 1961 Supreme Court decision Mapp v. Ohio,
announcing that the "exclusionary rule" barring evidence obtained
"illegally" by police had to be applied on the state level, is one
well-deserved target of her pen: "In order to vindicate the right to be free
from unreasonable searches and seizures, the criminal goes free . This would
be like a rule intended to reduce noise during an opera that mandated
shooting the soprano whenever anyone in the audience coughed," Coulter
writes.

Coulter continues her devastating evaluation of liberalism's cult of
criminality with her in-depth discussion of the Willie Horton case. Willie
Horton, as all political science majors know, is trotted out routinely by
leftists in order to show that Republicans are truly racists. (I was treated
to a showing of the famed "Willie Horton" commercials by Professor Lynn
Vavreck, Political Science 40, UCLA, February 26, 2002.)

The real story is somewhat different.

Willie Horton was a convicted first degree murderer sentenced to life in
prison without the possibility of parole (known as LWOP in legal circles).
Michael Dukakis, then the governor of Massachusetts, "lustily" backed the
weekend furlough program designed to re-introduce criminals to society. As
Coulter points out, LWOP convicts have no need for such re-introduction,
since they should never re-enter society. Dukakis felt differently, and
under his watch, 82 first degree murderers were furloughed, including
Horton.

Horton took off to Maryland, where he proceeded to sadistically torture
Maryland resident Cliff Barnes and rape and torture Barnes' fiancée Angela
Miller.

Naturally, this became a campaign issue (first raised by Al Gore) in the
1988 presidential election. Liberals, however, insisted that this issue was
only an issue because Horton happened to be black. "The only reason the
Democrats cried racism over the Willie Horton ads was that it was one of the
greatest campaign issues of all time," Coulter writes. "Horton was the
essence, the heart, the alpha and omega of liberal ideas about crime and
punishment, to wit: Release the guilty. Willie Horton showed the American
people exactly what was wrong with liberal theories about crime."

Then there's the liberal theory about life: it only matters if we're talking
about convicted murders (no, please don't fry them!), not if we're talking
about unborn innocents (suck 'em into a sink). Abortion for liberals, as
Coulter explains, is "The Holiest Sacrament." "No matter what else they
pretend to care about from time to time-undermining national security,
aiding terrorists, oppressing the middle class, freeing violent
criminals-the single most important item on the Democrats' agenda is
abortion," she avers.

There is no doubt that she is correct. Democratic politicians have abandoned
every group they purport to support at one time or another-except for
feminists who proclaim that abortion-on-demand is a godless-given-right. The
Democrats' undying and unwavering support for abortion-on-demand would
condemn them to electoral damnation time after time, so Democrats simply lie
about their policy positions.

That's why liberals require that every single judge pay homage to the "holy
writ" of Roe v. Wade, the most ridiculous legal decision in American
history. Here's Coulter: "There's no there there-there's nothing to talk
about in Roe. Denounce, laugh at, ridicule, attack-yes. Discuss-no."

Chapter 6 discusses the left's worship of public school teachers. "Attack
the Boy Scouts, boycott Mel Gibson, put Christ in a jar of urine-but don't
dare say anything bad about teachers," writes Coulter. Coulter concisely
explains the salary structure for public school teachers, who make more per
hour than architects, civil engineers, mechanical engineers, statisticians .
and the list goes on. At the same time, the quality of our public education
system has been consistently declining for decades. "With public schools
like this, students are going to learn, if they are going to learn, because
of their parents, not because of any inspiration they get from schools,"
Coulter rightly states. But because public school teachers' unions are
sacrosanct, the education system must not be reworked; to even suggest
reworking the system would imply criticism of public school teachers.

The remainder of the book is dedicated to Coulter's refutation of the left's
ad hominem and utterly hypocritical attack on the "non-science" of religion.

Religion isn't science, Coulter says, but neither is liberalism. Liberalism
is a religion, pure and simple: "Listening to liberals invoke the sanctity
of 'science' to promote their crackpot ideas creates the same uneasy feeling
as listening to Bill Clinton cite Scripture. Who are they kidding? Liberals
hate science. Science might produce facts impervious to their crying and
hysterics."

Measuring IQ (except when liberals have high IQs), mentioning that AIDS
almost primarily affects homosexuals and bisexuals (and their spouses),
preventing frivolous lawsuits based on junk science (see Edwards, John), DDT
use; using adult stem cells (embryonic stem cells are favored, though);
breast implants are (well, except for use in pornography)-all are
nonsensically opposed by liberals.

Most dear to me, as a Harvard Law student, is Coulter's take on the bizarre
liberal attack on deposed Harvard President Lawrence Summers, who had the
audacity to suggest that differences between men and women might not be
caused by society, but rather-gasp!-by nature: "These delicate hothouse
flowers [female Harvard professors] have a completely neurotic response to
something someone else says-and then act like it's Summers's fault. Only a
woman could shift the blame this way. If I hit you with a sledgehammer, that
is my fault. But if I propose a scientific idea and you vomit, I think that's
really more your fault." Hear, hear!

After compiling the evidence of liberal catechism, Coulter finally turns her
bazooka on the foundation of liberalism itself: Darwinism. Coulter
systematically picks apart the studies cited in support of
species-to-species evolution, which are often religiously-adhered-to
forgeries or speculative exercises. "These aren't chalk-covered scientists
toiling away with their test tubes and Bunsen burners," she writes. "They
are religious fanatics for whom evolution must be true and any evidence to
the contrary-including, for example, the entire fossil record-is something
that must be explained away with a fanciful excuse, like 'our evidence didn't
fossilize.'"

But evolution isn't just a religious theory, Coulter states. There's a
reason that Marx and Hitler relied on Darwinism to bolster their horrific
worldviews. Coulter quotes Hitler's Mein Kampf, in which he proclaimed that
his goal was "to promote the victory of the better, the stronger, and to
demand the submission of the worse and the weaker . [in accordance with] the
eternal will that rules this universe." When you take God out of the
picture, says Coulter, man becomes just another animal, fighting for
survival of the fittest.

Naturally, Godless has provoked liberals to the point of apoplexy. Instead
of fighting the main argument of Coulter's book, liberals (and some
conservatives) have latched onto page 103, in Coulter's fifth chapter. The
basic point of the chapter is that Democrats cannot win the battle of ideas,
and so have chosen to send "only messengers whom we're not allowed to reply
to. That's why all Democratic spokesmen these days are sobbing, hysterical
women."

Coulter specifically takes to task the so-called "Jersey Girls," four
liberal partisan widows whose husbands were murdered on 9/11. Here's the
inflammatory passage, in relevant part: "These self-obsessed women seemed
genuinely unaware that 9/11 was an attack on our nation and acted as if the
terrorist attacks happened only to them . These broads are millionaires,
lionized on TV and in articles about them, reveling in their status as
celebrities and stalked by grief-arazzis. I've never seen people enjoying
their husbands' deaths so much."

Senator Hillary Clinton (D-NY) responded to this passage thusly: "Perhaps
her book should have been called 'Heartless.'" 2004 Democratic presidential
candidate (and Jersey Girl-endorsed nominee) Senator John Kerry (D-MA)
likewise stated, "we owe all the 9/11 families Ann Coulter slandered so much
more than just outrage. We owe them thanks. And we also owe it to them to
put the focus where they originally put it when, in the middle of their
grieving, they stood up to demand answers and action from a government that
invoked their husbands' memories for political reasons ."

Really, now. I understand that Hillary doesn't want to read Godless, and I
understand that John Kerry owes a debt of gratitude to the Jersey Girls for
cutting him some campaign commercials. Nonetheless, reading the context of
the quote might be worthwhile. Clearly Coulter isn't claiming that the
Jersey Girls popped champagne as the planes hit the Twin Towers - she's
claiming that they have taken advantage of every available microphone to
pose as national security experts, then claimed the sanctuary of victimhood
when attacked politically. There is no doubt that this is absolutely true.
Kerry proves Coulter's point when he blabbers on about the debt of gratitude
we owe to the Jersey Girls for selflessly subsuming their grief to rip the
Bush Administration. Dorothy Rabinowitz of the Wall Street Journal has made
the exact same point as Coulter (OpinionJournal.com, April 14, 2004): "Nor
can anyone miss, by now, the darker side of this spectacle of the widows,
awash in their sense of victims' entitlement, as they press ahead with ever
more strident claims about the way the government failed them." Yes, Coulter's
language is more direct than Rabinowitz's. But that's why Coulter is
Coulter. And that's why Godless is so deliciously good.

Liberalism has run out of ideas, so it seeks to shut down debate. Criminals
must be freed because the courts say so. Abortion on demand must be provided
because (1) women say so, and you're not a woman, or if you are, shut up,
you haven't had an abortion and (2) the courts say so. Public education may
not be fixed because if you want to fix it, you hate teachers. With regard
to AIDS, the environment, stem cell research, and the origins of life,
liberals label their own views "science" and those of their opponents
"religious bigotry." And with regard to national security, liberals trot out
victims who agree with their point of view - and if you don't agree, you
need to shut up. Ann Coulter won't shut up. Thank God.



Copyright © 2006 Creators

Find this story at:
http://www.townhall.com/opinion/books_entertainment/reviews/benshapiro/200642.html
v***@at.BioStrategist.dot.dot.com
2006-06-11 18:39:16 UTC
Permalink
She's a lawyer. She argues like a very good lawyer.

I bought one of her books once and got tired of the heavy handedness.

Mind you, I agree with her premises and am glad she's there.


- = -
Vasos-Peter John Panagiotopoulos II, Reagan Mozart Pindus BioStrategist
http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/vjp2/vasos.htm
---{Nothing herein constitutes advice. Everything fully disclaimed.}---
[Homeland Security means private firearms not lazy obstructive guards]
[Yellary Clinton & Yellalot Spitzer: Nasty Together]
AGGreen
2006-06-11 18:47:06 UTC
Permalink
***You have to understand that, in addition to her right-on commentary,
she's a humorist which requires being heavy-handed.

Al
Post by v***@at.BioStrategist.dot.dot.com
She's a lawyer. She argues like a very good lawyer.
I bought one of her books once and got tired of the heavy handedness.
Mind you, I agree with her premises and am glad she's there.
- = -
Vasos-Peter John Panagiotopoulos II, Reagan Mozart Pindus BioStrategist
http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/vjp2/vasos.htm
---{Nothing herein constitutes advice. Everything fully disclaimed.}---
[Homeland Security means private firearms not lazy obstructive guards]
[Yellary Clinton & Yellalot Spitzer: Nasty Together]
Charles Hohenstein
2006-06-12 03:04:29 UTC
Permalink
Post by AGGreen
***You have to understand that, in addition to her right-on commentary,
she's a humorist which requires being heavy-handed.
Not only is she funny, but she is also gorgeous. Compare that to a
typical liberal like Hillary Clinton, who is shrill, humorless and ugly.
--
Charles Hohenstein
To reply, remove Gene Robinson
"The sad huddle of affluent bedwetters, thumbsuckers, treehuggers, social
climbers, homophiles, quavery ladies, and chronic petition signers that
makes up the current Episcopal Church . . ."--Thomas Lipscomb
Alexander Arnakis
2006-06-12 04:35:11 UTC
Permalink
On Mon, 12 Jun 2006 03:04:29 GMT, Charles Hohenstein
Post by Charles Hohenstein
Post by AGGreen
***You have to understand that, in addition to her right-on commentary,
she's a humorist which requires being heavy-handed.
Not only is she funny, but she is also gorgeous. Compare that to a
typical liberal like Hillary Clinton, who is shrill, humorless and ugly.
I wouldn't vote for *either* Hillary Clinton *or* Ann Coulter. Both of
them are shrill harridans.
Alec
2006-06-13 23:50:07 UTC
Permalink
Post by Alexander Arnakis
On Mon, 12 Jun 2006 03:04:29 GMT, Charles Hohenstein
Post by Charles Hohenstein
Post by AGGreen
***You have to understand that, in addition to her right-on commentary,
she's a humorist which requires being heavy-handed.
Not only is she funny, but she is also gorgeous. Compare that to a
typical liberal like Hillary Clinton, who is shrill, humorless and ugly.
I wouldn't vote for *either* Hillary Clinton *or* Ann Coulter. Both of
them are shrill harridans.
Once again, I'm with Alexander on this one.
Alec Lowly
The Black Monk
2006-06-12 17:44:26 UTC
Permalink
Post by Charles Hohenstein
Post by AGGreen
***You have to understand that, in addition to her right-on commentary,
she's a humorist which requires being heavy-handed.
Not only is she funny, but she is also gorgeous. Compare that to a
typical liberal like Hillary Clinton, who is shrill, humorless and ugly.
I also Coulter on the news recently. Hideous! Poor Americans, if
she's considered "gorgeous"...

BM
Post by Charles Hohenstein
--
Charles Hohenstein
To reply, remove Gene Robinson
"The sad huddle of affluent bedwetters, thumbsuckers, treehuggers, social
climbers, homophiles, quavery ladies, and chronic petition signers that
makes up the current Episcopal Church . . ."--Thomas Lipscomb
AGGreen
2006-06-13 01:27:54 UTC
Permalink
Post by The Black Monk
Post by Charles Hohenstein
Post by AGGreen
***You have to understand that, in addition to her right-on commentary,
she's a humorist which requires being heavy-handed.
Not only is she funny, but she is also gorgeous. Compare that to a
typical liberal like Hillary Clinton, who is shrill, humorless and ugly.
I also Coulter on the news recently. Hideous! Poor Americans, if
she's considered "gorgeous"...
***She has been going a little heavy on the eyeliner lately! Body ain't too
bad.
michael james
2006-06-13 03:49:03 UTC
Permalink
Post by The Black Monk
Post by Charles Hohenstein
Post by AGGreen
***You have to understand that, in addition to her right-on commentary,
she's a humorist which requires being heavy-handed.
Not only is she funny, but she is also gorgeous. Compare that to a
typical liberal like Hillary Clinton, who is shrill, humorless and ugly.
I also Coulter on the news recently. Hideous! Poor Americans, if
she's considered "gorgeous"...
BM
What is most dramatic
<http://www.encyclopediadramatica.com/index.php/Drama> is that Ann
Coulter used to be a man. S/he had male to female surgery at a young
age. The typical hormone therapy was incomplete in her case. She has no
breasts and features typical of women who take testosterone steroids.
Watch "her" adam's apple bob up and down on her throat when she talks on
Fox News <http://www.encyclopediadramatica.com/index.php/Fox_News>.

http://www.encyclopediadramatica.com/index.php/Ann_Coulter

Could this be why CH finds 'her' so attractive? :)
Post by The Black Monk
Post by Charles Hohenstein
--
Charles Hohenstein
To reply, remove Gene Robinson
"The sad huddle of affluent bedwetters, thumbsuckers, treehuggers, social
climbers, homophiles, quavery ladies, and chronic petition signers that
makes up the current Episcopal Church . . ."--Thomas Lipscomb
Bbd
2006-06-13 23:09:33 UTC
Permalink
Post by The Black Monk
Post by Charles Hohenstein
Post by AGGreen
***You have to understand that, in addition to her right-on commentary,
she's a humorist which requires being heavy-handed.
Not only is she funny, but she is also gorgeous. Compare that to a
typical liberal like Hillary Clinton, who is shrill, humorless and ugly.
I also Coulter on the news recently. Hideous! Poor Americans, if
she's considered "gorgeous"...
BM
Beauty is in the eye of the beholder, BM.

(I know people here in Canada who think that Belinda Stronach is
"gorgeous".) :-)
R.V. Gronoff
2006-06-14 19:56:36 UTC
Permalink
Post by The Black Monk
Post by Charles Hohenstein
Post by AGGreen
***You have to understand that, in addition to her right-on commentary,
she's a humorist which requires being heavy-handed.
Not only is she funny, but she is also gorgeous. Compare that to a
typical liberal like Hillary Clinton, who is shrill, humorless and ugly.
I also Coulter on the news recently. Hideous! Poor Americans, if
she's considered "gorgeous"...
BM
She is a he.

Loading Image...
--
Virez Ahmadinejad pour me répondre.
Remove Ahmadinejad to reply.

http://bluedusk.blogspot.com/
AGGreen
2006-06-14 20:31:29 UTC
Permalink
Post by R.V. Gronoff
Post by The Black Monk
Post by Charles Hohenstein
Post by AGGreen
***You have to understand that, in addition to her right-on commentary,
she's a humorist which requires being heavy-handed.
Not only is she funny, but she is also gorgeous. Compare that to a
typical liberal like Hillary Clinton, who is shrill, humorless and ugly.
I also Coulter on the news recently. Hideous! Poor Americans, if
she's considered "gorgeous"...
BM
She is a he.
http://www.rawilson.com/images/coulter.jpg
***LOL! It's not unusual for skinny women to display such a lump in their
throats!

Al
The Black Monk
2006-06-15 21:07:47 UTC
Permalink
Post by R.V. Gronoff
Post by The Black Monk
Post by Charles Hohenstein
Post by AGGreen
***You have to understand that, in addition to her right-on commentary,
she's a humorist which requires being heavy-handed.
Not only is she funny, but she is also gorgeous. Compare that to a
typical liberal like Hillary Clinton, who is shrill, humorless and ugly.
I also Coulter on the news recently. Hideous! Poor Americans, if
she's considered "gorgeous"...
BM
She is a he.
http://www.rawilson.com/images/coulter.jpg
That's actually a good picture of her. I saw her on some interview
show, and she was hideous. Not just in terms of masculine and birdlike
facial features, her movements, self-presentation and speech were
utterly devoid of any feminine charm. It really is sad for American
women that all it takes is for someone not to be obese, to be
considered "gorgeous" over here.

regards,

BM
Post by R.V. Gronoff
--
Virez Ahmadinejad pour me répondre.
Remove Ahmadinejad to reply.
http://bluedusk.blogspot.com/
Alexander Arnakis
2006-06-11 21:07:37 UTC
Permalink
On Sun, 11 Jun 2006 18:39:16 +0000 (UTC),
Post by v***@at.BioStrategist.dot.dot.com
She's a lawyer. She argues like a very good lawyer.
I bought one of her books once and got tired of the heavy handedness.
Mind you, I agree with her premises and am glad she's there.
She's a clown, and an overwrought, hysterical, and tasteless clown at
that.
AGGreen
2006-06-11 23:07:51 UTC
Permalink
Post by Alexander Arnakis
On Sun, 11 Jun 2006 18:39:16 +0000 (UTC),
Post by v***@at.BioStrategist.dot.dot.com
She's a lawyer. She argues like a very good lawyer.
I bought one of her books once and got tired of the heavy handedness.
Mind you, I agree with her premises and am glad she's there.
She's a clown, and an overwrought, hysterical, and tasteless clown at
that.
***She's highly eeucated and very well-to-do. You?

***and the Demonrats are just besides themselves:


Reprinted from NewsMax.com

Saturday, June 10, 2006 11:50 p.m. EDT
Ann Coulter Banned in New Jersey?


Two New Jersey Democrats are pushing to have Ann Coulter's new book
"Godless: The Church of Liberalism," banned from all bookstores in their
state because she criticized four 9/11 widows known as "the Jersey Girls."

In a joint press release issued Friday, New Jersey Assemblywomen Joan
Quigley and Linda Stender say they want New Jersey retailers to "ban the
sale of [Coulter's] book throughout the state."

"Ann Coulter's criticism of 9-11 widows, whose only desire since the attacks
have been to repair their shattered lives and protect other families from
the horrors they have experienced, is motivated purely by petty greed and
hate," the two Democrats complained.

"Coulter's vicious characterizations and remarks are motivated by greed and
her desire to sell books . . . She is a leech trying to turn a profit off
perverting the suffering of others."

Quigley and Stender conclude:

"No one in New Jersey should buy this book and allow Ann Coulter to profit
from her hate-mongering. We are asking New Jersey retailers statewide to
stand with us and express their outrage by refusing to carry or sell copies
of Coulter's book. Her hate-filled attacks on our 9-11 widows has no place
on New Jersey bookshelves."
R.V. Gronoff
2006-06-12 01:33:18 UTC
Permalink
Post by AGGreen
Godless by Ann Coulter
Review By Ben Shapiro
I don't give a bean about any of this irrelevant US crap.
So long, Greeno.
Post by AGGreen
plonk<
--
Virez Ahmadinejad pour me répondre.
Remove Ahmadinejad to reply.

http://bluedusk.blogspot.com/
AGGreen
2006-06-12 02:40:51 UTC
Permalink
Post by R.V. Gronoff
Post by AGGreen
Godless by Ann Coulter
Review By Ben Shapiro
I don't give a bean about any of this irrelevant US crap.
So long, Greeno.
***See ya, surrender monkey!! LOL!
Charles Hohenstein
2006-06-12 05:52:21 UTC
Permalink
Post by AGGreen
Post by R.V. Gronoff
Post by AGGreen
Godless by Ann Coulter
Review By Ben Shapiro
I don't give a bean about any of this irrelevant US crap.
So long, Greeno.
***See ya, surrender monkey!! LOL!
Is Gronoff still around? I added him to my kill file a long time ago.
Very French of him to surrender to Al.
--
Charles Hohenstein
To reply, remove Gene Robinson
"The sad huddle of affluent bedwetters, thumbsuckers, treehuggers, social
climbers, homophiles, quavery ladies, and chronic petition signers that
makes up the current Episcopal Church . . ."--Thomas Lipscomb
AGGreen
2006-06-12 11:25:35 UTC
Permalink
Post by Charles Hohenstein
Post by AGGreen
Post by R.V. Gronoff
Post by AGGreen
Godless by Ann Coulter
Review By Ben Shapiro
I don't give a bean about any of this irrelevant US crap.
So long, Greeno.
***See ya, surrender monkey!! LOL!
Is Gronoff still around? I added him to my kill file a long time ago.
Very French of him to surrender to Al.
***It was a cheap shot, but I couldn't resist...
R.V. Gronoff
2006-06-12 20:44:49 UTC
Permalink
Post by Charles Hohenstein
Post by AGGreen
Post by R.V. Gronoff
Post by AGGreen
Godless by Ann Coulter
Review By Ben Shapiro
I don't give a bean about any of this irrelevant US crap.
So long, Greeno.
***See ya, surrender monkey!! LOL!
Is Gronoff still around? I added him to my kill file a long time ago.
Very French of him to surrender to Al.
Yeah, fuck you too, shithead!
I hope your sons will roast in Iraq!
--
Virez Ahmadinejad pour me répondre.
Remove Ahmadinejad to reply.

http://bluedusk.blogspot.com/
AGGreen
2006-06-13 01:29:01 UTC
Permalink
Post by R.V. Gronoff
Post by Charles Hohenstein
Post by AGGreen
Post by R.V. Gronoff
Post by AGGreen
Godless by Ann Coulter
Review By Ben Shapiro
I don't give a bean about any of this irrelevant US crap.
So long, Greeno.
***See ya, surrender monkey!! LOL!
Is Gronoff still around? I added him to my kill file a long time ago.
Very French of him to surrender to Al.
Yeah, fuck you too, shithead!
I hope your sons will roast in Iraq!
***Is this fromVespers or Matins?
Alexander Arnakis
2006-06-13 02:33:10 UTC
Permalink
Post by AGGreen
Post by R.V. Gronoff
Yeah, fuck you too, shithead!
I hope your sons will roast in Iraq!
***Is this fromVespers or Matins?
I was in Athens in April/May 1999, during the height of the Clinton
bombing of Serbia. I remember the rock concerts in Syntagma Square, in
solidarity with the fellow-Orthodox Serbian people. One song, in
particular, had the same simple lyric, sung over and over, in English:
"F**k USA!" The audience loved it. (The graffiti all over the country
had the same message.)
AGGreen
2006-06-14 20:32:55 UTC
Permalink
Post by R.V. Gronoff
Post by Charles Hohenstein
Post by AGGreen
Post by R.V. Gronoff
Post by AGGreen
Godless by Ann Coulter
Review By Ben Shapiro
I don't give a bean about any of this irrelevant US crap.
So long, Greeno.
***See ya, surrender monkey!! LOL!
Is Gronoff still around? I added him to my kill file a long time ago.
Very French of him to surrender to Al.
Yeah, fuck you too, shithead!
I hope your sons will roast in Iraq!
***To quote you in another part of this thread:

"I'm sure you'll have no problem partaking the communion with such
thoughts next Sunday, n'est ce pas, frère Satan ?"

Al
Joe Orthodox
2006-06-13 03:36:35 UTC
Permalink
Post by Charles Hohenstein
Post by AGGreen
Post by R.V. Gronoff
Post by AGGreen
Godless by Ann Coulter
Review By Ben Shapiro
I don't give a bean about any of this irrelevant US crap.
So long, Greeno.
***See ya, surrender monkey!! LOL!
Is Gronoff still around? I added him to my kill file a long time ago.
Very French of him to surrender to Al.
He's not a bad guy. I've learned a lot from him and am grateful for his
posts.
R.V. Gronoff
2006-06-13 20:12:05 UTC
Permalink
Post by Joe Orthodox
Post by Charles Hohenstein
Post by AGGreen
Post by R.V. Gronoff
Post by AGGreen
Godless by Ann Coulter
Review By Ben Shapiro
I don't give a bean about any of this irrelevant US crap.
So long, Greeno.
***See ya, surrender monkey!! LOL!
Is Gronoff still around? I added him to my kill file a long time ago.
Very French of him to surrender to Al.
He's not a bad guy. I've learned a lot from him and am grateful for his
posts.
Bad or not bad, I don't couldn't care less. The fact is, the USA is the
country I loathe most in the world because it's the home of hypocrisy.

They go make war all the time to countries that never attacked them but
say "nipple" or "bollocks" in public and you get sued.

I'm proud being non-American, meaning the USA and not the continent. The
average Usian is, compared to other civilized nations, a savage brute
and a kind of sub-human. In Europe today, we have our brutes too - but
they live in crappy suburban cités and don't lead the politics, the
press and the education system.

The other fact is that now that Asia's become the industrial centre of
the world, Russia the richest energy producer and EU the strongest
currency owner, the USA, but people haven't yet realized it, is becoming
little by little irrelevant on the world scene.

For those who fancy symbols, I find it interesting that the US$ is
originally the sign of the Serpent (or Satan) standing between two
towers. The € symbol represents a moon crescent and two *fallen* towers.
Isn't it interesting that the Euro currency entered in circulation just
a quarter after the WTC was brought down by the Sons of the Crescent ?

Now, being insulted by people who will NEVER, just because of their
place of birth, history and (lack of) education be able to teach me
ANYTHING in any cultural field, especially philosophy, makes me feel warm.

And because I don't come from a culture where hypocrisy is the supreme
art de vivre, when someone insults my country, I insult him back, no
problem of conscience with that.
--
Virez Ahmadinejad pour me répondre.
Remove Ahmadinejad to reply.

http://bluedusk.blogspot.com/
Bbd
2006-06-13 23:03:55 UTC
Permalink
<snip>
Post by R.V. Gronoff
Post by Joe Orthodox
He's not a bad guy. I've learned a lot from him and am grateful for his
posts.
Bad or not bad, I don't couldn't care less. The fact is, the USA is the
country I loathe most in the world because it's the home of hypocrisy.
They go make war all the time to countries that never attacked them but
say "nipple" or "bollocks" in public and you get sued.
When did you last watch US network television? These days, foul
language is almost de rigeur.

As for "bollocks", most Americans wouldn't know what these were if you
hit them over the head with a pair of them.

<snipped for brevity>
Charles Hohenstein
2006-06-14 00:33:33 UTC
Permalink
Post by Bbd
When did you last watch US network television? These days, foul
language is almost de rigeur.
As for "bollocks", most Americans wouldn't know what these were if you
hit them over the head with a pair of them.
Is that a disparaging name for people who live in Bolivia? :)
--
Charles Hohenstein
To reply, remove Gene Robinson
"The sad huddle of affluent bedwetters, thumbsuckers, treehuggers, social
climbers, homophiles, quavery ladies, and chronic petition signers that
makes up the current Episcopal Church . . ."--Thomas Lipscomb
AGGreen
2006-06-14 01:04:46 UTC
Permalink
Post by Charles Hohenstein
Post by Bbd
When did you last watch US network television? These days, foul
language is almost de rigeur.
As for "bollocks", most Americans wouldn't know what these were if you
hit them over the head with a pair of them.
Is that a disparaging name for people who live in Bolivia? :)
***No, Paris!!!
Charles Hohenstein
2006-06-14 02:46:24 UTC
Permalink
Post by AGGreen
***No, Paris!!!
Paris? Never heard of it. Is that somewhere in the Islamic world?
--
Charles Hohenstein
To reply, remove Gene Robinson
"The sad huddle of affluent bedwetters, thumbsuckers, treehuggers, social
climbers, homophiles, quavery ladies, and chronic petition signers that
makes up the current Episcopal Church . . ."--Thomas Lipscomb
Alexander Arnakis
2006-06-14 03:49:59 UTC
Permalink
On Wed, 14 Jun 2006 02:46:24 GMT, Charles Hohenstein
Post by Charles Hohenstein
Paris? Never heard of it. Is that somewhere in the Islamic world?
No. http://www.paristexas.com/
veritas
2006-06-14 04:05:28 UTC
Permalink
Post by Alexander Arnakis
On Wed, 14 Jun 2006 02:46:24 GMT, Charles Hohenstein
Post by Charles Hohenstein
Paris? Never heard of it. Is that somewhere in the Islamic world?
No. http://www.paristexas.com/
That's what I was going to write.The movie.
AGGreen
2006-06-14 11:20:24 UTC
Permalink
Post by Charles Hohenstein
Post by AGGreen
***No, Paris!!!
Paris? Never heard of it. Is that somewhere in the Islamic world?
***Yes, the Islamic march on Europe is almost accomplished. Paris will be
the first to sell burkas in the department stores.
The Black Monk
2006-06-15 21:09:00 UTC
Permalink
Post by Charles Hohenstein
Post by AGGreen
***No, Paris!!!
Paris? Never heard of it. Is that somewhere in the Islamic world?
Wait about 20 years and it will be.

BM
Post by Charles Hohenstein
--
Charles Hohenstein
To reply, remove Gene Robinson
"The sad huddle of affluent bedwetters, thumbsuckers, treehuggers, social
climbers, homophiles, quavery ladies, and chronic petition signers that
makes up the current Episcopal Church . . ."--Thomas Lipscomb
M***@gmail.com
2006-06-16 13:08:45 UTC
Permalink
Post by The Black Monk
Post by Charles Hohenstein
Post by AGGreen
***No, Paris!!!
Paris? Never heard of it. Is that somewhere in the Islamic world?
Wait about 20 years and it will be.
Not in 20 years. There are about 4 million nominal muslims in France.
Out of these, roughly a half actually observe islam. France has 60
million inhabitants. Even if the number of muslim believers doubled in
20 years (definitely plausible), France would still be far from falling
to islam. Much more tension and more frequent outbursts of violence,
though. A lot more French Jews will probably have decided to move
elsewhere, probably Israel and America.

Five doublings, that is, 100 years, is an entirely different matter,
however. That would be sufficient for the muslim believer population in
France to balloon into 30 million while the rest of the population
would probably decrease owing to fertility below replacement level.
Post by The Black Monk
BM
- mj
The Black Monk
2006-06-19 14:14:01 UTC
Permalink
Post by M***@gmail.com
Post by The Black Monk
Post by Charles Hohenstein
Post by AGGreen
***No, Paris!!!
Paris? Never heard of it. Is that somewhere in the Islamic world?
Wait about 20 years and it will be.
Not in 20 years. There are about 4 million nominal muslims in France.
I was speaking specifically of Paris, although my numbers may be
somewhat off.

regards,

BM
Post by M***@gmail.com
Out of these, roughly a half actually observe islam. France has 60
million inhabitants. Even if the number of muslim believers doubled in
20 years (definitely plausible), France would still be far from falling
to islam. Much more tension and more frequent outbursts of violence,
though. A lot more French Jews will probably have decided to move
elsewhere, probably Israel and America.
Five doublings, that is, 100 years, is an entirely different matter,
however. That would be sufficient for the muslim believer population in
France to balloon into 30 million while the rest of the population
would probably decrease owing to fertility below replacement level.
Post by The Black Monk
BM
- mj
AGGreen
2006-06-14 01:03:54 UTC
Permalink
Post by R.V. Gronoff
Post by Joe Orthodox
He's not a bad guy. I've learned a lot from him and am grateful for his
posts.
Bad or not bad, I don't couldn't care less. The fact is, the USA is the
country I loathe most in the world because it's the home of hypocrisy.
***Polls have shown that a majority of Americans dislike France, a "country"
that can't control iten they riot over loss of job security, a "country that
cannot deal with the Islamic bums they let in, a "country" that displays
contempt for America that sacrificed its soldiers to save their stupid
surrender monkey asses in WWII.
Post by R.V. Gronoff
They go make war all the time to countries that never attacked them but
say "nipple" or "bollocks" in public and you get sued.
***You've been misinformed. Much worse is heard commonly on the street.
Post by R.V. Gronoff
I'm proud being non-American, meaning the USA and not the continent. The
average Usian is, compared to other civilized nations, a savage brute and
a kind of sub-human. In Europe today, we have our brutes too - but they
live in crappy suburban cités and don't lead the politics, the press and
the education system.
***LOL! You are funny.
Post by R.V. Gronoff
The other fact is that now that Asia's become the industrial centre of the
world, Russia the richest energy producer and EU the strongest currency
owner, the USA, but people haven't yet realized it, is becoming little by
little irrelevant on the world scene.
***Screw Europe and its abortion-loving EU.
Post by R.V. Gronoff
For those who fancy symbols, I find it interesting that the US$ is
originally the sign of the Serpent (or Satan) standing between two towers.
The € symbol represents a moon crescent and two *fallen* towers. Isn't it
interesting that the Euro currency entered in circulation just a quarter
after the WTC was brought down by the Sons of the Crescent ?
***I never figured you to be into this protestant crapola.
Post by R.V. Gronoff
Now, being insulted by people who will NEVER, just because of their place
of birth, history and (lack of) education be able to teach me ANYTHING in
any cultural field, especially philosophy, makes me feel warm.
***The French philosophy is to raise one's hands and say "I give up. Please
don't shoot my pitiful ass."
Post by R.V. Gronoff
And because I don't come from a culture where hypocrisy is the supreme art
de vivre, when someone insults my country, I insult him back, no problem
of conscience with that.
***The pinacle of hypocrisy is the thanklessness of the French for what the
Americans have done FOR them!

***Screw the French.
Charles Hohenstein
2006-06-14 02:45:14 UTC
Permalink
Post by AGGreen
***Screw the French.
But be sure to wear a condom, or you might catch something. :)
--
Charles Hohenstein
To reply, remove Gene Robinson
"The sad huddle of affluent bedwetters, thumbsuckers, treehuggers, social
climbers, homophiles, quavery ladies, and chronic petition signers that
makes up the current Episcopal Church . . ."--Thomas Lipscomb
R.V. Gronoff
2006-06-14 19:51:48 UTC
Permalink
Post by Charles Hohenstein
Post by AGGreen
***Screw the French.
But be sure to wear a condom, or you might catch something. :)
I'm sure you'll have no problem partaking the communion with such
thoughts next Sunday, n'est ce pas, frère Satan ?
--
Virez Ahmadinejad pour me répondre.
Remove Ahmadinejad to reply.

http://bluedusk.blogspot.com/
veritas
2006-06-14 01:31:14 UTC
Permalink
"R.V. Gronoff" <***@ahmadinejadifrance.com> wrote in message news:448f1c14$0$4979$***@news.free.fr...
<snip>

If you live in America for a long time ( as I did I was married to an
American girl ) and you have American friends , your negative opinions (
formed by looking at it from the outside ) will change to more favorable
ones.

In all practicality , the Americans have taken over the task of the former
British Empire in the World ( with the acquiescence of the Anglo-Saxon
nations ) .
R.V. Gronoff
2006-06-14 19:50:53 UTC
Permalink
Post by Bbd
<snip>
If you live in America for a long time
Can't happen, won't happen.
Post by Bbd
( as I did I was married to an
American girl )
I can't stand the American accent, especially from a beautiful woman. It
sounds too much like a trisomic Irish farmer.
Post by Bbd
and you have American friends , your negative opinions (
formed by looking at it from the outside ) will change to more favorable
ones.
I can appreciate some American individuals. There are geniuses there too
but, like everywhere else, they're the exception.
Ther fact remains that the American geniuses are much more appreciated
and sometimes financially supported in and from France than from the
USA. It started with Edgar Poë: left to starve and eventually murdered
by his fellow citizens, yet praised and enthusiastically translated into
french by Baudelaire and Mallarmé.
Same thing for Philip K. Dick (the American Kafka, nothing less) and
many great jazz musicians. For us, John Coltrane is a god. What is he in
the US cultural landscape ?

OK, my favourite hard-rock bands are Jethro Tull and Scorpions... oops!
they're Scottish and German!
Post by Bbd
In all practicality , the Americans have taken over the task of the former
British Empire in the World ( with the acquiescence of the Anglo-Saxon
nations ) .
Yes, and that's why, being French, it's my duty to professionnally hate,
despise and loathe everything that evokes the Roastbeefs's empire.
As war hero of Irish-Flemish descent and president Charles De Gaulle
always said: The Anglo-Saxons do not belong to Europe and the European
culture.

I hope the future of the EU includes the union with Russia - and the
final divorce with the atlantist empire(s).
--
Virez Ahmadinejad pour me répondre.
Remove Ahmadinejad to reply.

http://bluedusk.blogspot.com/
Bbd
2006-06-14 21:20:16 UTC
Permalink
R.V. Gronoff wrote:

(snipped for brevity)
Post by R.V. Gronoff
I can't stand the American accent, especially from a beautiful woman. It
sounds too much like a trisomic Irish farmer.
There are actually many distinct American accents, some of which I, at
least, find very pleasing to the ear.
Post by R.V. Gronoff
Post by veritas
and you have American friends , your negative opinions (
formed by looking at it from the outside ) will change to more favorable
ones.
(more judicious snipping)
Post by R.V. Gronoff
Yes, and that's why, being French, it's my duty to professionnally hate,
despise and loathe everything that evokes the Roastbeefs's empire.
Hating is almost always most injurious to the hater.

"Save your own soul and thousands around you will be saved."
-St. Seraphim of Sarov
Post by R.V. Gronoff
As war hero of Irish-Flemish descent and president Charles De Gaulle
always said: The Anglo-Saxons do not belong to Europe and the European
culture.
Even in France, a great many people realized that Charles De Gaulle was
vain, pompous, intolerant and probably psychotic.

In one of his rare moments of self-awareness he said,

"Je n'aime que les gens qui me résistent mais je ne les supporte pas."
Post by R.V. Gronoff
I hope the future of the EU includes the union with Russia - and the
final divorce with the atlantist empire(s).
"Il n'y a plus de patrie ; je ne vois d'un pôle à l'autre que des
tyrans et des esclaves."
-Diderot

This will never change. There is no utopia around the corner.
R.V. Gronoff
2006-06-15 01:47:27 UTC
Permalink
Post by Bbd
(snipped for brevity)
Post by R.V. Gronoff
I can't stand the American accent, especially from a beautiful woman. It
sounds too much like a trisomic Irish farmer.
There are actually many distinct American accents, some of which I, at
least, find very pleasing to the ear.
Can't tell from here. I can tell a Glaswegian from an Aberdonian and a
Cockney from someone from Manchester, but all the Americans sound like a
duck who's eating a boiling potato.
Post by Bbd
Post by R.V. Gronoff
Post by veritas
and you have American friends , your negative opinions (
formed by looking at it from the outside ) will change to more favorable
ones.
(more judicious snipping)
Post by R.V. Gronoff
Yes, and that's why, being French, it's my duty to professionnally hate,
despise and loathe everything that evokes the Roastbeefs's empire.
Hating is almost always most injurious to the hater.
"Save your own soul and thousands around you will be saved."
-St. Seraphim of Sarov
Obviously, saint Seraphim never had his country attacked, invaded and
occupied by the English during centuries.

Oh, and hating the Saxons is also *fun*, something that must never been
understimated.
Post by Bbd
Post by R.V. Gronoff
As war hero of Irish-Flemish descent and president Charles De Gaulle
always said: The Anglo-Saxons do not belong to Europe and the European
culture.
Even in France, a great many people realized that Charles De Gaulle was
vain, pompous, intolerant and probably psychotic.
Like Roosevelt, you prefer Pétain ?
Post by Bbd
In one of his rare moments of self-awareness he said,
"Je n'aime que les gens qui me résistent mais je ne les supporte pas."
He also said: "Vive le Québec libre!", what have you done of that ?
Post by Bbd
Post by R.V. Gronoff
I hope the future of the EU includes the union with Russia - and the
final divorce with the atlantist empire(s).
"Il n'y a plus de patrie ; je ne vois d'un pôle à l'autre que des
tyrans et des esclaves."
-Diderot
This will never change. There is no utopia around the corner.
The EU has to chose a priviledged partnership, either with the Atlantic
or with Eurasia. Gaullism, or what we call "grand continental gaullism"
- which includes Russian figures from both the emigration and the former
USSR, including Putin is the dream of the Greater Europe "from Brest to
Vladivostok". De Gaulle included French Canada and dreamed of the
awakening of the US territories of New France - the reason why he sent
Pompidou to Louisiana to meet gov. James Domengeau to found the Codofil.
Today, French is spoken again *as a first language* in Maine and
Arkansas, where colleges have opened and provide classes in french only.

After all, the USA could well secede between three territories: a
Spanish territory in the South, New France along the Mississipi and
Jesusland anywhere else they want.
--
Virez Ahmadinejad pour me répondre.
Remove Ahmadinejad to reply.

http://bluedusk.blogspot.com/
AGGreen
2006-06-15 02:04:01 UTC
Permalink
***Is it true that unemployment is nearly 10 percent in France? Here in the
U.S. e rate hit 4.6 percent this week, the lowest in two decades. Guess we
just have a booming economy.

Al
Post by R.V. Gronoff
Post by Bbd
(snipped for brevity)
Post by R.V. Gronoff
I can't stand the American accent, especially from a beautiful woman. It
sounds too much like a trisomic Irish farmer.
There are actually many distinct American accents, some of which I, at
least, find very pleasing to the ear.
Can't tell from here. I can tell a Glaswegian from an Aberdonian and a
Cockney from someone from Manchester, but all the Americans sound like a
duck who's eating a boiling potato.
Post by Bbd
Post by R.V. Gronoff
Post by veritas
and you have American friends , your negative opinions (
formed by looking at it from the outside ) will change to more favorable
ones.
(more judicious snipping)
Post by R.V. Gronoff
Yes, and that's why, being French, it's my duty to professionnally hate,
despise and loathe everything that evokes the Roastbeefs's empire.
Hating is almost always most injurious to the hater.
"Save your own soul and thousands around you will be saved."
-St. Seraphim of Sarov
Obviously, saint Seraphim never had his country attacked, invaded and
occupied by the English during centuries.
Oh, and hating the Saxons is also *fun*, something that must never been
understimated.
Post by Bbd
Post by R.V. Gronoff
As war hero of Irish-Flemish descent and president Charles De Gaulle
always said: The Anglo-Saxons do not belong to Europe and the European
culture.
Even in France, a great many people realized that Charles De Gaulle was
vain, pompous, intolerant and probably psychotic.
Like Roosevelt, you prefer Pétain ?
Post by Bbd
In one of his rare moments of self-awareness he said,
"Je n'aime que les gens qui me résistent mais je ne les supporte pas."
He also said: "Vive le Québec libre!", what have you done of that ?
Post by Bbd
Post by R.V. Gronoff
I hope the future of the EU includes the union with Russia - and the
final divorce with the atlantist empire(s).
"Il n'y a plus de patrie ; je ne vois d'un pôle à l'autre que des
tyrans et des esclaves."
-Diderot
This will never change. There is no utopia around the corner.
The EU has to chose a priviledged partnership, either with the Atlantic or
with Eurasia. Gaullism, or what we call "grand continental gaullism" -
which includes Russian figures from both the emigration and the former
USSR, including Putin is the dream of the Greater Europe "from Brest to
Vladivostok". De Gaulle included French Canada and dreamed of the
awakening of the US territories of New France - the reason why he sent
Pompidou to Louisiana to meet gov. James Domengeau to found the Codofil.
Today, French is spoken again *as a first language* in Maine and Arkansas,
where colleges have opened and provide classes in french only.
After all, the USA could well secede between three territories: a Spanish
territory in the South, New France along the Mississipi and Jesusland
anywhere else they want.
--
Virez Ahmadinejad pour me répondre.
Remove Ahmadinejad to reply.
http://bluedusk.blogspot.com/
Bbd
2006-06-15 13:12:54 UTC
Permalink
Post by R.V. Gronoff
Post by Bbd
(snipped for brevity)
Post by R.V. Gronoff
I can't stand the American accent, especially from a beautiful woman. It
sounds too much like a trisomic Irish farmer.
There are actually many distinct American accents, some of which I, at
least, find very pleasing to the ear.
Can't tell from here. I can tell a Glaswegian from an Aberdonian and a
Cockney from someone from Manchester, but all the Americans sound like a
duck who's eating a boiling potato.
I enjoy the way most people from New England speak, although I don't
find the Boston accent particularly appealing. Some Southern accents
are smooth and genteel, and people from some parts of the mid-west and
north-west have accents that strike me as plain, honest and
unpretentious.

Perhaps I might also point out that not all francophones hail from the
sixteenth arrondissement; spoken French can, in some cases, sound like
a duck who is asphyxiating on that same boiled potato.
Post by R.V. Gronoff
Post by Bbd
Post by R.V. Gronoff
Post by veritas
and you have American friends , your negative opinions (
formed by looking at it from the outside ) will change to more favorable
ones.
(more judicious snipping)
Post by R.V. Gronoff
Yes, and that's why, being French, it's my duty to professionnally hate,
despise and loathe everything that evokes the Roastbeefs's empire.
Hating is almost always most injurious to the hater.
"Save your own soul and thousands around you will be saved."
-St. Seraphim of Sarov
Obviously, saint Seraphim never had his country attacked, invaded and
occupied by the English during centuries.
Oh, and hating the Saxons is also *fun*, something that must never been
understimated.
But you don't seem to enjoy it quite so much when others have the same
kind of "fun" at your expense.
Post by R.V. Gronoff
Post by Bbd
Post by R.V. Gronoff
As war hero of Irish-Flemish descent and president Charles De Gaulle
always said: The Anglo-Saxons do not belong to Europe and the European
culture.
Even in France, a great many people realized that Charles De Gaulle was
vain, pompous, intolerant and probably psychotic.
Like Roosevelt, you prefer Pétain ?
When offered a choice between a rotten apple and a piece of decayed
meat, one chooses the apple, because the meat is smellier and
potentially more harmful to the health. That is the only reason the
allies tolerated De Gaulle's arrogant and self-aggrandizing behaviour -
everyone regarded him as a ridiculous nuisance.
Post by R.V. Gronoff
Post by Bbd
In one of his rare moments of self-awareness he said,
"Je n'aime que les gens qui me résistent mais je ne les supporte pas."
He also said: "Vive le Québec libre!", what have you done of that ?
We had a good laugh. It confirmed what most people here already thought
about De Gaulle - that he was a complete imbecile.

Tu devrais comprendre que le Québec pourra "se libérer" lors qu'il le
veut. On a déjà tenu trois referendums sur la sécession, et les
Québécois ont chaque fois choisis le Canada.

Should they ever choose differently, ainsi soit il.
Post by R.V. Gronoff
Post by Bbd
Post by R.V. Gronoff
I hope the future of the EU includes the union with Russia - and the
final divorce with the atlantist empire(s).
"Il n'y a plus de patrie ; je ne vois d'un pôle à l'autre que des
tyrans et des esclaves."
-Diderot
This will never change. There is no utopia around the corner.
The EU has to chose a priviledged partnership, either with the Atlantic
or with Eurasia. Gaullism, or what we call "grand continental gaullism"
- which includes Russian figures from both the emigration and the former
USSR, including Putin is the dream of the Greater Europe "from Brest to
Vladivostok".
It would certainly be to the benefit of the EU to extend membership to
Russia. In order to accomplish this, they would need to overcome
certain pernicious prejudices that we have, from time to time, seen
expressed in this newsgroup. But I suppose that if Poland and Germany
can cooperate, anything is possible. There are also, of course, strong
Russian nationalist elements which would oppose any such incorporation
into a pan-European body.
Post by R.V. Gronoff
De Gaulle included French Canada and dreamed of the
awakening of the US territories of New France - the reason why he sent
Pompidou to Louisiana to meet gov. James Domengeau to found the Codofil.
Today, French is spoken again *as a first language* in Maine and
Arkansas, where colleges have opened and provide classes in french only.
Francophones are unlikely ever to be sufficiently numerous in the US,
for such a scenario to develop in the direction De Gaulle envisioned.

Here in Canada, I'm not sure that you appreciate how much the French
are disliked and distrusted by most francophone Québecois.
Post by R.V. Gronoff
After all, the USA could well secede between three territories: a
Spanish territory in the South, New France along the Mississipi and
Jesusland anywhere else they want.
The USA settled the question of secession permanently a century and a
half ago. The biggest challenge to the American identity is the huge
increase in the US hispanic population. It is not beyond the realm of
possibility that the US may one day be a Spanish-speaking country. As
for "New France", don't hold your breath.
R.V. Gronoff
2006-06-16 06:32:04 UTC
Permalink
Post by Bbd
Post by R.V. Gronoff
Post by Bbd
(snipped for brevity)
Post by R.V. Gronoff
I can't stand the American accent, especially from a beautiful woman. It
sounds too much like a trisomic Irish farmer.
There are actually many distinct American accents, some of which I, at
least, find very pleasing to the ear.
Can't tell from here. I can tell a Glaswegian from an Aberdonian and a
Cockney from someone from Manchester, but all the Americans sound like a
duck who's eating a boiling potato.
I enjoy the way most people from New England speak, although I don't
find the Boston accent particularly appealing. Some Southern accents
are smooth and genteel, and people from some parts of the mid-west and
north-west have accents that strike me as plain, honest and
unpretentious.
Perhaps I might also point out that not all francophones hail from the
sixteenth arrondissement; spoken French can, in some cases, sound like
a duck who is asphyxiating on that same boiled potato.
The difference is that the USians have officially murdered the proper
spelling of english.

Like: plough, centre, neighbour, doughnut...
Pittsburgh should be pronounced "Pittstbro".

The USA have made a culture of illiteracy, that's what's scary. And of
course this is becoming standard in all their colonies, ie Western
Europe and some Asian countries. English teachers tear their hair when
they try to teach proper english to their students... even in the UK and
Ireland.

Due to the crappy US series we're flooded in in Europe, kids everywhere
now adress a judge as "Votre honneur" in France instead of "Monsieur le
Président" or "Monsieur le Juge", and "Your honour" instead of "My Lord"
in Britain.
The constraints of french dubbing for US films and series have slowly
but irreversibly destroyed A LOT of genuine french vocabulary.
"Eventuellement" used to mean "possibly", but is now used to translate
"eventually". "Basique" referred to alcaloid substances (pH<7) like
caustic soda and ammonium. Now it translates "basic"... :-(

US english is really a WMD of cultures and languages.
--
Virez Ahmadinejad pour me répondre.
Remove Ahmadinejad to reply.

http://bluedusk.blogspot.com/
Bbd
2006-06-16 14:00:30 UTC
Permalink
Post by R.V. Gronoff
Post by Bbd
Post by R.V. Gronoff
Post by Bbd
(snipped for brevity)
Post by R.V. Gronoff
I can't stand the American accent, especially from a beautiful woman. It
sounds too much like a trisomic Irish farmer.
There are actually many distinct American accents, some of which I, at
least, find very pleasing to the ear.
Can't tell from here. I can tell a Glaswegian from an Aberdonian and a
Cockney from someone from Manchester, but all the Americans sound like a
duck who's eating a boiling potato.
I enjoy the way most people from New England speak, although I don't
find the Boston accent particularly appealing. Some Southern accents
are smooth and genteel, and people from some parts of the mid-west and
north-west have accents that strike me as plain, honest and
unpretentious.
Perhaps I might also point out that not all francophones hail from the
sixteenth arrondissement; spoken French can, in some cases, sound like
a duck who is asphyxiating on that same boiled potato.
The difference is that the USians have officially murdered the proper
spelling of english.
Like: plough, centre, neighbour, doughnut...
Pittsburgh should be pronounced "Pittstbro".
American spelling is gradually becoming standard here in Canada. When I
was in school, we still had "aeroports" in our cities and "programmes"
on our televisions. These have been replaced by "airports" and
"programs". We still live in "neighbourhoods" and write "cheques", but
these spellings will also undoubtedly disappear.

To be fair, American spelling is often more phonetic and logical than
traditional spelling. You must remember that there is no "Académie
anglaise". English spelling and usage are matters of custom, and they
are in a constant state of evolution (devolution?).
Post by R.V. Gronoff
The USA have made a culture of illiteracy, that's what's scary. And of
course this is becoming standard in all their colonies, ie Western
Europe and some Asian countries. English teachers tear their hair when
they try to teach proper english to their students... even in the UK and
Ireland.
There is some truth to this. On this continent, there are widely-held
prejudices against excellence and scholarly achievement. Crudeness and
illiteracy are identified by many people with masculinity, and
academics and artists are looked upon in some quarters with suspicion.

This, however, is not the whole picture. The American cultural figures
for whom you expressed admiration did not appear "ex nihilo". There are
highly literate and creative subcultures here which flourish,
notwithstanding the "great unwashed".
Post by R.V. Gronoff
Due to the crappy US series we're flooded in in Europe, kids everywhere
now adress a judge as "Votre honneur" in France instead of "Monsieur le
Président" or "Monsieur le Juge", and "Your honour" instead of "My Lord"
in Britain.
Here, we are often more sensitive to such things than is the case in
France, where "franglais" can be quite chic. We always say "fin de
semaine", while you are more likely to say "week-end", and we arrange
for "stationnement" while you hunt for "un parking". I say "courriel",
whereas you might be more familiar with "mail".

Franglais must not, however, be confused with Canadian dialectic
French, which includes a number of longstanding borrowings from English
as the result of the historical coexistence of our two linguistic
communities, especially in the Montréal area. The borrowing is
bilateral, and anglophones here routinely use words like "dépanneur"
(convenience store) and "poutine" (frites baked with gravy and cheese).


I myself am more comfortable with dialect, which often strays
grammatically from the standard. I tend to make mistakes when I switch
to standard French. Here, for example, we "tutoi" almost everyone. We
also habitually simplify tenses (yesterday, I should have written
"lorsqu'il le voudra", shouldn't I?). We rarely bother with the future
indicative; we just add infinitives to appropriately-conjugated forms
of "aller", although the pronunciation would be unfamiliar to you
(J'vas ....). Here are a couple of snippets from a newsgroup I follow:

"j'vas participer au lieux d'chialer"

"J'pense j'vas partir"
Post by R.V. Gronoff
The constraints of french dubbing for US films and series have slowly
but irreversibly destroyed A LOT of genuine french vocabulary.
"Eventuellement" used to mean "possibly", but is now used to translate
"eventually".
It works both ways. I spend my days in a bilingual office, and I often
avoid the word "actually" because people think I mean "actuellement".
Post by R.V. Gronoff
"Basique" referred to alcaloid substances (pH<7) like
caustic soda and ammonium. Now it translates "basic"... :-(
US english is really a WMD of cultures and languages.
It is anglophones who have suffered most from the transformation of
American English into an international lingua franca. One of my
missions at work is to ensure that our English-language publications
receive the same attention to correctness and precision of expression
as do the French-language ones.
R.V. Gronoff
2006-06-16 22:34:52 UTC
Permalink
Post by Bbd
Post by R.V. Gronoff
Post by Bbd
Post by R.V. Gronoff
Post by Bbd
(snipped for brevity)
Post by R.V. Gronoff
I can't stand the American accent, especially from a beautiful woman. It
sounds too much like a trisomic Irish farmer.
There are actually many distinct American accents, some of which I, at
least, find very pleasing to the ear.
Can't tell from here. I can tell a Glaswegian from an Aberdonian and a
Cockney from someone from Manchester, but all the Americans sound like a
duck who's eating a boiling potato.
I enjoy the way most people from New England speak, although I don't
find the Boston accent particularly appealing. Some Southern accents
are smooth and genteel, and people from some parts of the mid-west and
north-west have accents that strike me as plain, honest and
unpretentious.
Perhaps I might also point out that not all francophones hail from the
sixteenth arrondissement; spoken French can, in some cases, sound like
a duck who is asphyxiating on that same boiled potato.
The difference is that the USians have officially murdered the proper
spelling of english.
Like: plough, centre, neighbour, doughnut...
Pittsburgh should be pronounced "Pittstbro".
American spelling is gradually becoming standard here in Canada. When I
was in school, we still had "aeroports" in our cities and "programmes"
on our televisions. These have been replaced by "airports" and
"programs". We still live in "neighbourhoods" and write "cheques", but
these spellings will also undoubtedly disappear.
To be fair, American spelling is often more phonetic and logical than
traditional spelling. You must remember that there is no "Académie
anglaise". English spelling and usage are matters of custom, and they
are in a constant state of evolution (devolution?).
It's a real problem for scholars and linguists, when you can't tell the
etymology of a word by its spelling, even if the spelling looks awkwards
("Please, manœuvre to the left to take the queue!"). In french some
people want the withdrawal of the mute h or the replacement of ph by f
and y by i. Except that these spellings help us know that a radical
comes from the greek and it helps us find or build other words of the
same family - provided the teachers really explain this to their
students at school, that is.
Post by Bbd
Post by R.V. Gronoff
The USA have made a culture of illiteracy, that's what's scary. And of
course this is becoming standard in all their colonies, ie Western
Europe and some Asian countries. English teachers tear their hair when
they try to teach proper english to their students... even in the UK and
Ireland.
There is some truth to this. On this continent, there are widely-held
prejudices against excellence and scholarly achievement. Crudeness and
illiteracy are identified by many people with masculinity, and
academics and artists are looked upon in some quarters with suspicion.
Like "liberal leftist faggots" ?
Post by Bbd
This, however, is not the whole picture. The American cultural figures
for whom you expressed admiration did not appear "ex nihilo". There are
highly literate and creative subcultures here which flourish,
notwithstanding the "great unwashed".
When I heard of "highway culture" and "motel culture" I was about to
barf. I've been raised in a French and German cultural context, by
studying philosophy at La Sorbonne. I deeply respect English
universities like Oxford and Cambridge (George Steiner is one of my
heroes, and we all know here some Orthodox scholars and one bishop who
teach at Cambridge). Of course, after 1945, the American universities
benefited from the arrival of the Jewish scholars of Central Europe and,
in some respect, some US universities reached the same level of
excellence as the German ones before the nazi era.

But what the best of pop culture tried to achieve in the 60s (ie to
raise popular arts like songwriting to the same level as classical
poetry, for example), is being destroyed by a tidal wave of entropic
mediocrity that wouldn't be so bad hadn't the USA the worldwide
influence it has.
Post by Bbd
Post by R.V. Gronoff
Due to the crappy US series we're flooded in in Europe, kids everywhere
now adress a judge as "Votre honneur" in France instead of "Monsieur le
Président" or "Monsieur le Juge", and "Your honour" instead of "My Lord"
in Britain.
Here, we are often more sensitive to such things than is the case in
France, where "franglais" can be quite chic. We always say "fin de
semaine", while you are more likely to say "week-end", and we arrange
for "stationnement" while you hunt for "un parking". I say "courriel",
whereas you might be more familiar with "mail".
Well, "un overpass" is "une bretelle d'autoroute". We simply have a
different franglais and I'm not against integrating foreign words, like
we did with greek and arabic before, as long as they really bring
something new to our language and don't simply replace an existing word.
Post by Bbd
Franglais must not, however, be confused with Canadian dialectic
French, which includes a number of longstanding borrowings from English
as the result of the historical coexistence of our two linguistic
communities, especially in the Montréal area. The borrowing is
bilateral, and anglophones here routinely use words like "dépanneur"
(convenience store) and "poutine" (frites baked with gravy and cheese).
I myself am more comfortable with dialect, which often strays
grammatically from the standard. I tend to make mistakes when I switch
to standard French. Here, for example, we "tutoi" almost everyone. We
also habitually simplify tenses (yesterday, I should have written
"lorsqu'il le voudra", shouldn't I?). We rarely bother with the future
indicative; we just add infinitives to appropriately-conjugated forms
of "aller", although the pronunciation would be unfamiliar to you
"j'vas participer au lieux d'chialer"
"J'pense j'vas partir"
Well, standard french became the one language of the republic in...
1995. My grand-father only spoke Norman patois and it was a joy to have
him explain the road to Mont Saint-Michel to deeply confused English
tourists!

I've confused Quebecois with the sentences:
"Y'a un oéziao de d'ssus'n'branque d'poumi."
Or:
"Vas m'cri l'siau d'iau dans l'guerniéi!"
Post by Bbd
Post by R.V. Gronoff
The constraints of french dubbing for US films and series have slowly
but irreversibly destroyed A LOT of genuine french vocabulary.
"Eventuellement" used to mean "possibly", but is now used to translate
"eventually".
It works both ways. I spend my days in a bilingual office, and I often
avoid the word "actually" because people think I mean "actuellement".
Post by R.V. Gronoff
"Basique" referred to alcaloid substances (pH<7) like
caustic soda and ammonium. Now it translates "basic"... :-(
US english is really a WMD of cultures and languages.
It is anglophones who have suffered most from the transformation of
American English into an international lingua franca. One of my
missions at work is to ensure that our English-language publications
receive the same attention to correctness and precision of expression
as do the French-language ones.
Queen's English may either mean the idiom spoken at Buckingham Palace or
in a certain NYC neighbourhood... :-)
--
Virez Ahmadinejad pour me répondre.
Remove Ahmadinejad to reply.

http://bluedusk.blogspot.com/
Bbd
2006-06-17 17:45:47 UTC
Permalink
(I've done a bit more snipping for the sake of economy.)
Post by R.V. Gronoff
Post by Bbd
American spelling is gradually becoming standard here in Canada. When I
was in school, we still had "aeroports" in our cities and "programmes"
on our televisions. These have been replaced by "airports" and
"programs". We still live in "neighbourhoods" and write "cheques", but
these spellings will also undoubtedly disappear.
To be fair, American spelling is often more phonetic and logical than
traditional spelling. You must remember that there is no "Académie
anglaise". English spelling and usage are matters of custom, and they
are in a constant state of evolution (devolution?).
It's a real problem for scholars and linguists, when you can't tell the
etymology of a word by its spelling, even if the spelling looks awkwards
("Please, manœuvre to the left to take the queue!"). In french some
people want the withdrawal of the mute h or the replacement of ph by f
and y by i. Except that these spellings help us know that a radical
comes from the greek and it helps us find or build other words of the
same family - provided the teachers really explain this to their
students at school, that is.
Students often find it immensely frustrating to distinguish between "H
muet" and "H aspiré"....
Post by R.V. Gronoff
Post by Bbd
Post by R.V. Gronoff
The USA have made a culture of illiteracy, that's what's scary. And of
course this is becoming standard in all their colonies, ie Western
Europe and some Asian countries. English teachers tear their hair when
they try to teach proper english to their students... even in the UK and
Ireland.
There is some truth to this. On this continent, there are widely-held
prejudices against excellence and scholarly achievement. Crudeness and
illiteracy are identified by many people with masculinity, and
academics and artists are looked upon in some quarters with suspicion.
Like "liberal leftist faggots" ?
Not here in Canada, since just about everybody is a liberal leftist.
:-)
Post by R.V. Gronoff
But what the best of pop culture tried to achieve in the 60s (ie to
raise popular arts like songwriting to the same level as classical
poetry, for example), is being destroyed by a tidal wave of entropic
mediocrity that wouldn't be so bad hadn't the USA the worldwide
influence it has.
Even were the US not the sole superpower, I suspect that its
entertainment industry would be every bit as successful as it is now,
because it has found a "winning formula". What you describe as
"entropic mediocrity" seems to exert a powerful attraction on young
people of almost every language and culture.
Post by R.V. Gronoff
Post by Bbd
Post by R.V. Gronoff
US english is really a WMD of cultures and languages.
It is anglophones who have suffered most from the transformation of
American English into an international lingua franca. One of my
missions at work is to ensure that our English-language publications
receive the same attention to correctness and precision of expression
as do the French-language ones.
Queen's English may either mean the idiom spoken at Buckingham Palace or
in a certain NYC neighbourhood... :-)
Only if one fails to distinguish between "Queens English" and "The
Queen's English". :-)
R.V. Gronoff
2006-06-17 19:58:03 UTC
Permalink
Post by Bbd
(I've done a bit more snipping for the sake of economy.)
Post by R.V. Gronoff
Post by Bbd
American spelling is gradually becoming standard here in Canada. When I
was in school, we still had "aeroports" in our cities and "programmes"
on our televisions. These have been replaced by "airports" and
"programs". We still live in "neighbourhoods" and write "cheques", but
these spellings will also undoubtedly disappear.
To be fair, American spelling is often more phonetic and logical than
traditional spelling. You must remember that there is no "Académie
anglaise". English spelling and usage are matters of custom, and they
are in a constant state of evolution (devolution?).
It's a real problem for scholars and linguists, when you can't tell the
etymology of a word by its spelling, even if the spelling looks awkwards
("Please, manœuvre to the left to take the queue!"). In french some
people want the withdrawal of the mute h or the replacement of ph by f
and y by i. Except that these spellings help us know that a radical
comes from the greek and it helps us find or build other words of the
same family - provided the teachers really explain this to their
students at school, that is.
Students often find it immensely frustrating to distinguish between "H
muet" and "H aspiré"....
Well perhaps everybody should speak cajun. "Les zaricots sont pas salés,
cher!"
Post by Bbd
Post by R.V. Gronoff
Post by Bbd
Post by R.V. Gronoff
The USA have made a culture of illiteracy, that's what's scary. And of
course this is becoming standard in all their colonies, ie Western
Europe and some Asian countries. English teachers tear their hair when
they try to teach proper english to their students... even in the UK and
Ireland.
There is some truth to this. On this continent, there are widely-held
prejudices against excellence and scholarly achievement. Crudeness and
illiteracy are identified by many people with masculinity, and
academics and artists are looked upon in some quarters with suspicion.
Like "liberal leftist faggots" ?
Not here in Canada, since just about everybody is a liberal leftist.
:-)
Well, "Canadian" is an insult among
supercon-biblesucking-flagwaving-USians. It's a short synonymous of
"liberal leftist faggots" + anything French-related.
Post by Bbd
Post by R.V. Gronoff
But what the best of pop culture tried to achieve in the 60s (ie to
raise popular arts like songwriting to the same level as classical
poetry, for example), is being destroyed by a tidal wave of entropic
mediocrity that wouldn't be so bad hadn't the USA the worldwide
influence it has.
Even were the US not the sole superpower, I suspect that its
entertainment industry would be every bit as successful as it is now,
because it has found a "winning formula". What you describe as
"entropic mediocrity" seems to exert a powerful attraction on young
people of almost every language and culture.
Post by R.V. Gronoff
Post by Bbd
Post by R.V. Gronoff
US english is really a WMD of cultures and languages.
It is anglophones who have suffered most from the transformation of
American English into an international lingua franca. One of my
missions at work is to ensure that our English-language publications
receive the same attention to correctness and precision of expression
as do the French-language ones.
Queen's English may either mean the idiom spoken at Buckingham Palace or
in a certain NYC neighbourhood... :-)
Only if one fails to distinguish between "Queens English" and "The
Queen's English". :-)
I still strongly favour Aberdonian scots. Methinks it ought to be the
standard of english language. Fits like, loon ?
--
Virez Ahmadinejad pour me répondre.
Remove Ahmadinejad to reply.

http://bluedusk.blogspot.com/
Bbd
2006-06-17 21:24:01 UTC
Permalink
Post by R.V. Gronoff
Post by Bbd
(I've done a bit more snipping for the sake of economy.)
is some truth to this. On this continent, there are widely-held
Post by R.V. Gronoff
Post by Bbd
Post by R.V. Gronoff
Post by Bbd
prejudices against excellence and scholarly achievement. Crudeness and
illiteracy are identified by many people with masculinity, and
academics and artists are looked upon in some quarters with suspicion.
Like "liberal leftist faggots" ?
Not here in Canada, since just about everybody is a liberal leftist.
:-)
Well, "Canadian" is an insult among
supercon-biblesucking-flagwaving-USians. It's a short synonymous of
"liberal leftist faggots" + anything French-related.
Even here, I'm afraid, when someone is suspected of being a "closeted"
homosexual, people will say, "Maybe he's just French..."
Post by R.V. Gronoff
Post by Bbd
Post by R.V. Gronoff
Queen's English may either mean the idiom spoken at Buckingham Palace or
in a certain NYC neighbourhood... :-)
Only if one fails to distinguish between "Queens English" and "The
Queen's English". :-)
I still strongly favour Aberdonian scots. Methinks it ought to be the
standard of english language. Fits like, loon ?
An interesting, but implausible notion...

I am hoping that as the Chinese become the dominant economic power,
Mandarin might supplant English as the "international language".
R.V. Gronoff
2006-06-17 23:58:19 UTC
Permalink
Post by Bbd
I am hoping that as the Chinese become the dominant economic power,
Mandarin might supplant English as the "international language".
Actually the Chinese "alphabet" (ideograms set rather) is the most
coherent of all. It's the only written language intuitively learnable by
deaf-mute people, because each character actually represents what it
means and you don't need to pronounce it, even mentally, to understand
it or biuld sentences yourself, you just have to visualize your idea.
In alphabetical languages like english, there's no resemblance between
the word "bird" and the bird itself, but in Chinese, there is. In
Chinese, you write "volcano" just by combining the characters for
"mountain" and "fire", and both are explicitely figurative.

And there's no rule as for how a character should be pronounced, so
every chinese dialect writes exactly the same. People from Shangai,
Hong-Kong and Taiwan can correspond to each other, although they
wouldn't understand an oral conversation.

Now that the method of typing Chinese characters with a standard
computer keyboard's been solved, it's very likely that Chinese will soon
become the standard *written* language, yet english may still preserve
its oral universality for awhile.
--
Virez Ahmadinejad pour me répondre.
Remove Ahmadinejad to reply.

http://bluedusk.blogspot.com/
Alexander Arnakis
2006-06-18 03:29:51 UTC
Permalink
On Sun, 18 Jun 2006 01:58:19 +0200, "R.V. Gronoff"
Post by R.V. Gronoff
Now that the method of typing Chinese characters with a standard
computer keyboard's been solved, it's very likely that Chinese will soon
become the standard *written* language, yet english may still preserve
its oral universality for awhile.
It won't happen because Chinese is notoriously hard for non-Chinese to
learn. The U.S. Foreign Service Institute rates Chinese, Korean,
Japanese, and Arabic the most difficult major languages, and premiums
are paid to those diplomats who master them.

English can be learned at different levels. For example, it's the
language of international aviation, but its use in aviation involves a
fairly limited set of technical terms.

My father taught English in Athens under the auspices of the British
Council in 1940-41. At that time, the British Council was promoting
the use of "Basic English" -- an English with a very limited
vocabulary (a total of 400 words, I think) that would be easier for
non-English speakers to learn. One of my father's projects was to
translate Thucydides' History of the Peloponnesian War into Basic
English. Reading it now, it sounds hilarious!
R.V. Gronoff
2006-06-18 23:47:30 UTC
Permalink
Post by Alexander Arnakis
On Sun, 18 Jun 2006 01:58:19 +0200, "R.V. Gronoff"
Post by R.V. Gronoff
Now that the method of typing Chinese characters with a standard
computer keyboard's been solved, it's very likely that Chinese will soon
become the standard *written* language, yet english may still preserve
its oral universality for awhile.
It won't happen because Chinese is notoriously hard for non-Chinese to
learn.
No, it's not. A German friend of mine, from former East Germany, told me
that he was sooner fluent in Mandarin than in Russian.
Japanese is a completely different language than Chinese - it's not even
an Asian language, but it has roots in Oceania - but the Japanese use
two sets of characters: a simple one for easy to average level of
conversation (kata-kana) and another set, based on Chinese, for more the
expression of more complex ideas or classical, academic texts (hira-kana).
Post by Alexander Arnakis
The U.S. Foreign Service Institute rates Chinese, Korean,
Japanese, and Arabic the most difficult major languages, and premiums
are paid to those diplomats who master them.
Well, if 1.5 bn Chinese can speak and write it, why should the rest of
mankind be unable to do so ?

Let me tell you that I've suffered *a lot* trying to learn german for
seven years, and I would hate it hadn't it been useful for my studies of
philosophy.
Post by Alexander Arnakis
English can be learned at different levels. For example, it's the
language of international aviation, but its use in aviation involves a
fairly limited set of technical terms.
English is, with creole (which is a synthesis of english, french and
spanish mixed by the Black people so that their masters wouldn't be able
to understand), the most *recent* language invented. Actually, real
english appeared at the time of Chaucer as a synthesis of french Norman
and german Saxon. Being pragmatic, the English only retained the best of
both worlds, simplifying the grammar and conjugation as much as they
could, yet multiplying synonyms for their own sake, in order not to hurt
the two groups of population - the Gaels excepted. It's interesting to
see what the Scots for example produced from the same two root languages
(the scots dialect, as deliciously illustrated by poet Robert Burns).
Post by Alexander Arnakis
My father taught English in Athens under the auspices of the British
Council in 1940-41. At that time, the British Council was promoting
the use of "Basic English" -- an English with a very limited
vocabulary (a total of 400 words, I think) that would be easier for
non-English speakers to learn. One of my father's projects was to
translate Thucydides' History of the Peloponnesian War into Basic
English. Reading it now, it sounds hilarious!
Well, there's also a Bible in basic english. Funny too.
--
Virez Ahmadinejad pour me répondre.
Remove Ahmadinejad to reply.

http://bluedusk.blogspot.com/
Bbd
2006-06-18 19:56:02 UTC
Permalink
Post by R.V. Gronoff
Post by Bbd
I am hoping that as the Chinese become the dominant economic power,
Mandarin might supplant English as the "international language".
Actually the Chinese "alphabet" (ideograms set rather) is the most
coherent of all. It's the only written language intuitively learnable by
deaf-mute people, because each character actually represents what it
means and you don't need to pronounce it, even mentally, to understand
it or biuld sentences yourself, you just have to visualize your idea.
In alphabetical languages like english, there's no resemblance between
the word "bird" and the bird itself, but in Chinese, there is. In
Chinese, you write "volcano" just by combining the characters for
"mountain" and "fire", and both are explicitely figurative.
And there's no rule as for how a character should be pronounced, so
every chinese dialect writes exactly the same. People from Shangai,
Hong-Kong and Taiwan can correspond to each other, although they
wouldn't understand an oral conversation.
Now that the method of typing Chinese characters with a standard
computer keyboard's been solved, it's very likely that Chinese will soon
become the standard *written* language, yet english may still preserve
its oral universality for awhile.
The main obstacle to increased use of the Chinese script is that
ideograms, notwithstanding the mnemonic clues built into them, have to
be memorized, and this requires a considerable investment of time and
effort. Another factor to take into account is that the ideograms are
customarily arranged in accordance with Chinese syntax.

At present, most students of Chinese don't bother learning the written
language, not because it is too difficult, but because of the
commitment of time and energy required to accomplish this. Changing
political and economic realities might, however, alter this
cost/benefit ratio.
R.V. Gronoff
2006-06-18 23:50:41 UTC
Permalink
Post by Bbd
The main obstacle to increased use of the Chinese script is that
ideograms, notwithstanding the mnemonic clues built into them, have to
be memorized, and this requires a considerable investment of time and
effort.
Not for the deaf-mute for whom it's way easier than memorizing
alphabetical words that look like nothing.
Post by Bbd
Another factor to take into account is that the ideograms are
customarily arranged in accordance with Chinese syntax.
At present, most students of Chinese don't bother learning the written
language, not because it is too difficult, but because of the
commitment of time and energy required to accomplish this. Changing
political and economic realities might, however, alter this
cost/benefit ratio.
Under Mao, the Chinese gvt invented a simplified writing to help the
masses - namely the hundreds of millions of peasants - to learn reading
and writing. As of today, it's still the character set taught in primary
schools and used in popular newspapers.
--
Virez Ahmadinejad pour me répondre.
Remove Ahmadinejad to reply.

http://bluedusk.blogspot.com/
Bbd
2006-06-19 12:57:57 UTC
Permalink
Post by R.V. Gronoff
Post by Bbd
The main obstacle to increased use of the Chinese script is that
ideograms, notwithstanding the mnemonic clues built into them, have to
be memorized, and this requires a considerable investment of time and
effort.
Not for the deaf-mute for whom it's way easier than memorizing
alphabetical words that look like nothing.
Post by Bbd
Another factor to take into account is that the ideograms are
customarily arranged in accordance with Chinese syntax.
At present, most students of Chinese don't bother learning the written
language, not because it is too difficult, but because of the
commitment of time and energy required to accomplish this. Changing
political and economic realities might, however, alter this
cost/benefit ratio.
Under Mao, the Chinese gvt invented a simplified writing to help the
masses - namely the hundreds of millions of peasants - to learn reading
and writing. As of today, it's still the character set taught in primary
schools and used in popular newspapers.
You might enjoy this article:

http://www.chinanowmag.com/artscene.htm
The Black Monk
2006-06-16 16:05:36 UTC
Permalink
Post by Bbd
Post by R.V. Gronoff
De Gaulle included French Canada and dreamed of the
awakening of the US territories of New France - the reason why he sent
Pompidou to Louisiana to meet gov. James Domengeau to found the Codofil.
Today, French is spoken again *as a first language* in Maine and
Arkansas, where colleges have opened and provide classes in french only.
Francophones are unlikely ever to be sufficiently numerous in the US,
for such a scenario to develop in the direction De Gaulle envisioned.
Here in Canada, I'm not sure that you appreciate how much the French
are disliked and distrusted by most francophone Québecois.
Interesting. I'm reminded of a funny scene in one of Sartre's novels,
(from the Roads to Freedom trilogy), where a Fench exile in the early
1940's is in a bar in New York. The bartender, a Quebecois, gloats
that the French really deserved what happened to them after they
betrayed the people of Quebec after 1763. During that time, I believe,
the mayor of Montreal expressed sympathy for the Axis and the French
rioted in order to protest having to participate in that war.

regards,

BM
Post by Bbd
Post by R.V. Gronoff
After all, the USA could well secede between three territories: a
Spanish territory in the South, New France along the Mississipi and
Jesusland anywhere else they want.
The USA settled the question of secession permanently a century and a
half ago. The biggest challenge to the American identity is the huge
increase in the US hispanic population. It is not beyond the realm of
possibility that the US may one day be a Spanish-speaking country. As
for "New France", don't hold your breath.
Bbd
2006-06-16 17:27:25 UTC
Permalink
Post by The Black Monk
Post by Bbd
Post by R.V. Gronoff
De Gaulle included French Canada and dreamed of the
awakening of the US territories of New France - the reason why he sent
Pompidou to Louisiana to meet gov. James Domengeau to found the Codofil.
Today, French is spoken again *as a first language* in Maine and
Arkansas, where colleges have opened and provide classes in french only.
Francophones are unlikely ever to be sufficiently numerous in the US,
for such a scenario to develop in the direction De Gaulle envisioned.
Here in Canada, I'm not sure that you appreciate how much the French
are disliked and distrusted by most francophone Québecois.
Interesting. I'm reminded of a funny scene in one of Sartre's novels,
(from the Roads to Freedom trilogy), where a Fench exile in the early
1940's is in a bar in New York. The bartender, a Quebecois, gloats
that the French really deserved what happened to them after they
betrayed the people of Quebec after 1763. During that time, I believe,
the mayor of Montreal expressed sympathy for the Axis and the French
rioted in order to protest having to participate in that war.
regards,
BM
You are thinking of the notorious Camilien Houde, whose nickname was
"l'imprevisible" (the unpredictable one). He had fascist inclinations
and he publicly championed defiance of consciption laws. Houde was
arrested and convicted of sedition. He spent the remainder of the war
in internment camps.

Houde is remembered here for an unintentionally funny remark he made in
1939, while addressing King George VI. He said, "Your Majesty, I thank
you from the bottom of my heart, and Madame Houde here thanks you from
her bottom too."

In keeping with his character, he is buried beneath a replica of
Napoleon's tomb.
Post by The Black Monk
Post by Bbd
Post by R.V. Gronoff
After all, the USA could well secede between three territories: a
Spanish territory in the South, New France along the Mississipi and
Jesusland anywhere else they want.
The USA settled the question of secession permanently a century and a
half ago. The biggest challenge to the American identity is the huge
increase in the US hispanic population. It is not beyond the realm of
possibility that the US may one day be a Spanish-speaking country. As
for "New France", don't hold your breath.
Joe Orthodox
2006-06-14 03:53:46 UTC
Permalink
Post by R.V. Gronoff
They go make war all the time to countries that never attacked them but
say "nipple" or "bollocks" in public and you get sued.
LOL! France can't even fight against the countries that DO attack them
(i.e. Germany).

By the way, France went to war against Iraq in the first Gulf War and
Iraq didn't attack them. Try not to be selective in the historical
discussion, OK?
Post by R.V. Gronoff
I'm proud being non-American, meaning the USA and not the continent. The
average Usian is, compared to other civilized nations, a savage brute
and a kind of sub-human. In Europe today, we have our brutes too - but
they live in crappy suburban cités and don't lead the politics, the
press and the education system.
Their brutes typically lead the economy, health care, and military
ministries. The US has never started a world war, something the French
did twice. (And yes, they did provoke WWII with those savage
reparations inflicted upon Germany).
Post by R.V. Gronoff
For those who fancy symbols, I find it interesting that the US$ is
originally the sign of the Serpent (or Satan) standing between two
towers. The € symbol represents a moon crescent and two *fallen* towers.
Isn't it interesting that the Euro currency entered in circulation just
a quarter after the WTC was brought down by the Sons of the Crescent ?
Fascinating bit of information, though it'll probably go into the kook
closet along with the Satanic moon and stars symbol of Proctor & Gamble
and the current bar code hysteria.
Post by R.V. Gronoff
Now, being insulted by people who will NEVER, just because of their
place of birth, history and (lack of) education be able to teach me
ANYTHING in any cultural field, especially philosophy, makes me feel warm.
I'm very proud that we never gave the world idiots like Marx, Engels,
Derrida, Foucault, and the multitude of other communist and fascist
"philosophers". What passes for "philosophy" in Europe is often seen as
it truly is by many American simpletons -- evil buffoonery.
Post by R.V. Gronoff
And because I don't come from a culture where hypocrisy is the supreme
art de vivre, when someone insults my country, I insult him back, no
problem of conscience with that.
Let's not get too carried away. The Algerians and other subjects of
imperial France would disagree with that statement, as would the masses
of North African immigrants who are permanently locked out of the French
economy and upper echelons of the work force. Well after the slogan
"Liberté, égalité, fraternité" was coined, the French were quickly and
hypocritically violating that principle around the world during their
empire-building spree. The only thing that brought it to an end were
their military defeats in Southeast Asia and Africa. Americans have
their faults, but during my travels to Europe I was struck by the level
of unashamed, open racism across the continent.
Bbd
2006-06-14 12:43:34 UTC
Permalink
Joe Orthodox wrote:

<snipped for brevity>
Post by AGGreen
Americans have
their faults, but during my travels to Europe I was struck by the level
of unashamed, open racism across the continent.
I was in Rome for a week in April. Despite the city's large muslim
population, I saw a total of two hijabs the whole time I was there, and
those were at the airport.

If this is the result of prejudice, I can't help wishing (guiltily)
that we had a bit more of it here...
The Black Monk
2006-06-15 21:22:35 UTC
Permalink
Post by AGGreen
Americans have
their faults, but during my travels to Europe I was struck by the level
of unashamed, open racism across the continent.
...Which is purely because of American hypocrasy. Recently I was
inquiring about beaches near New Haven, and was advised by a local
which ones to avoid because of the "urban" population. It was
interesting to hear the person speaking with me struggling to find a
word that wasn't what she was thinking - black or Puerto Rican.

Americans who might never use the "n" word would also, however, never
live within 5 miles of any black, never consider dating a black, and
yet be shocked at European open displays of their attitudes which might
despite their un-PC nature be far less really racistic than those of
the average American.

(not implying anything about you, just commmenting in general)

Canada is even worse than the USA in that regard. I recall a east
Indian-Canadian friend of mine telling mer how refreshing it is in the
US where it's easier to know how people feel.

BM
M***@gmail.com
2006-06-16 12:57:17 UTC
Permalink
Post by The Black Monk
Post by AGGreen
Americans have
their faults, but during my travels to Europe I was struck by the level
of unashamed, open racism across the continent.
...Which is purely because of American hypocrasy. Recently I was
inquiring about beaches near New Haven, and was advised by a local
which ones to avoid because of the "urban" population. It was
interesting to hear the person speaking with me struggling to find a
word that wasn't what she was thinking - black or Puerto Rican.
It might be a good idea for a white person to avoid beaches frequented
by
primarily blacks or Puerto Ricans - and not just because of an
irrational
aversion to people of darker skin colors.
Post by The Black Monk
Americans who might never use the "n" word would also, however, never
live within 5 miles of any black, never consider dating a black, and
yet be shocked at European open displays of their attitudes which might
despite their un-PC nature be far less really racistic than those of
the average American.
(not implying anything about you, just commmenting in general)
Canada is even worse than the USA in that regard. I recall a east
Indian-Canadian friend of mine telling mer how refreshing it is in the
US where it's easier to know how people feel.
Do middle or upper class people also self-segregate based on race in
North America? I don't see how a white middle-class person would
benefit
from avoiding any black middle-class person, but I know plenty of
excellent
reasons to avoid members of the underclass of any color, particularly
black,
however, because of their frequently strong anti-white sentiments.
Post by The Black Monk
BM
- mj
The Black Monk
2006-06-16 14:18:35 UTC
Permalink
Post by M***@gmail.com
Post by The Black Monk
Post by AGGreen
Americans have
their faults, but during my travels to Europe I was struck by the level
of unashamed, open racism across the continent.
...Which is purely because of American hypocrasy. Recently I was
inquiring about beaches near New Haven, and was advised by a local
which ones to avoid because of the "urban" population. It was
interesting to hear the person speaking with me struggling to find a
word that wasn't what she was thinking - black or Puerto Rican.
It might be a good idea for a white person to avoid beaches frequented
by primarily blacks or Puerto Ricans - and not just because of an
irrational aversion to people of darker skin colors.
Absolutely. The hypocrisy was in not being able to simply state,
"Don't go to these beaches because they are full of blacks from the
ghetto." She was afraid to say it because of the fear of being
perceived as a racist. Americans are among the most scared people in
the world; my wife noticed that their social world is even more
repressive than was the USSR prior to perestroika.
Post by M***@gmail.com
Post by The Black Monk
Americans who might never use the "n" word would also, however, never
live within 5 miles of any black, never consider dating a black, and
yet be shocked at European open displays of their attitudes which might
despite their un-PC nature be far less really racistic than those of
the average American.
(not implying anything about you, just commmenting in general)
Canada is even worse than the USA in that regard. I recall a east
Indian-Canadian friend of mine telling mer how refreshing it is in the
US where it's easier to know how people feel.
Do middle or upper class people also self-segregate based on race in
North America? I don't see how a white middle-class person would
benefit from avoiding any black middle-class person,
I absolutely agree, yet even within the same class there is
self-segregation in America which shocks even people from countries
with racism problems like Russia. In my upper middle-class school, the
3% blacks would usually sit in a corner at their own table during
lunches. When one of them (a friend of ours whom we had to defend)
started dating a white girl, there were a lot of conflicts from other
whites even though race wasn't explicitly mentioned. This sort of sick
behavior came from people who would never ever use public racial taunts
at sports games, due to fear.

In America despite some integrated exceptions (such as Oak Park outside
Chicago) there is a well-known "tipping point" in towns or urban
neighborhoods which after a certain pecentage of the population (not
sure which - 25% or so) become black, all the whites start to leave and
it quickly becomes virtually all black.
Post by M***@gmail.com
but I know plenty of
excellent reasons to avoid members of the underclass of any color, particularly
black, however, because of their frequently strong anti-white sentiments.
Sure. And if I were a middle class black I would want to avoid redneck
whites.

regards,

BM
Post by M***@gmail.com
Post by The Black Monk
BM
- mj
Samuel
2006-06-14 01:15:39 UTC
Permalink
Post by AGGreen
Godless by Ann Coulter
Review By Ben Shapiro
Coulter Unknown at the church she claims to attend

http://www.rawstory.com/news/2006/Godless_author_Coulter_unknown_at_ch
urch_0608.html
--
Remove letters in caps from email address before replying
veritas
2006-06-17 06:19:29 UTC
Permalink
A useful poll on Ann Coulter . She was unforgetable when I saw her on C-SPAN
.


See and vote here :

http://www.newsmax.com/poll/coulter/?PROMO_CODE=2131-1
AGGreen
2006-06-17 13:04:17 UTC
Permalink
***Much to the chagrin of the leftists at the NY times, her book is No. 1 on
their best seller list. Go Ann!!!
Post by veritas
A useful poll on Ann Coulter . She was unforgetable when I saw her on
C-SPAN .
http://www.newsmax.com/poll/coulter/?PROMO_CODE=2131-1
j***@yahoo.com
2006-06-17 14:35:58 UTC
Permalink
She is certainly no Mark Twain.

In her most recent Human Events column titled 'This Is Why We Don't
Trust Democrats With National Security', Ann Coulter exposes the real
truth about 911. The fact is, dimwits like Ann Coulter, who are neither
Democrat nor Republican [they are what you call IDEOLOGUES] have
hijacked American foreign policy and they think they can singlehandedly
defeat terrorists.

Osama Bin Laden is winning the game. Pre-911, Ann coulter's pal,
Barbara Olson routinely hogged airtime to talk about Clinton, Lewinsky
and Chandra Levy. Their public laundry list did not expose the secret
war against terrorism because they wanted to capture all the glory the
way they handed it to Reagan when the hostages were released. But their
little, september Surprise went up in smoke -with Barbara Olson. Guess
the National security interests took a back seat to Coulter's
obsession, and that's why we have 911 widows:

http://un.alturl.com
Post by AGGreen
***Much to the chagrin of the leftists at the NY times, her book is No. 1 on
their best seller list. Go Ann!!!
Post by veritas
A useful poll on Ann Coulter . She was unforgetable when I saw her on
C-SPAN .
http://www.newsmax.com/poll/coulter/?PROMO_CODE=2131-1
v***@lycos.com
2006-06-18 00:14:14 UTC
Permalink
Post by AGGreen
***Much to the chagrin of the leftists at the NY times, her book is No. 1 on
their best seller list. Go Ann!!!
--- I understand that porn sells well in the US now too...
Post by AGGreen
Post by veritas
A useful poll on Ann Coulter . She was unforgetable when I saw her on
C-SPAN .
http://www.newsmax.com/poll/coulter/?PROMO_CODE=2131-1
v***@lycos.com
2006-06-18 00:18:30 UTC
Permalink
Post by veritas
A useful poll on Ann Coulter . She was unforgetable when I saw her on C-SPAN
Yes she is very unforgetable....

The Flying Witch of 9/11

By Art Buchwald
A BROOMSTICK in my closet was missing. I asked someone about it and he
said, "Ann Coulter took it."

"What did she do with it?" I asked.

"She's flying around on it as a witch, looking for more 9/11 widows for
a follow-up book called `The Coulter Code."'

I said, "She's a very busy witch. This is her fifth broomstick."

He said, "She loves to ride around attacking anyone who will help her
sell books. She went on the `Today' show defending her statements about
the widows and said the four were part of the `left's doctrine of
infallibility' and they were using grief `in order to make a political
point while preventing anyone from responding."'

"I saw something like that," I said. "Didn't she also say that all the
widows wanted to do was make millions of dollars? She said, `These
broads are millionaires, lionised on TV and in articles about them,
reveling in their status as celebrities and stalked by grief-arazzies.
I've never seen people enjoy their husband's deaths so much."'

I continued, "Coulter doesn't mention how much money she hopes to make
on the book. Do you think she's crossed the line?"

"That's one of her specialties -- crossing the line. She's done it in
her other books, on television and radio, and in her column. Even Bill
O'Reilly said she went too far over the line."

I said, "I call her the Witch of 9/11. I don't even like her hair."

"Why not?"

"It gets tangled up in her broomstick."

"Why are we spending so much time on her?"

"She's the most right wing conservative we know. Did you know Coulter
told a reporter, `My only regret with Timothy McVeigh was that he
didn't go to the New York Times building'? When she was asked later
whether she regretted that statement, she said, "Of course I regret it.
I should have added, `after everyone had left the building except
editors and reporters."'

"I wonder if she's still looking for 9/11 widows? Once she crossed that
line, she could say anything she wanted to about 9/11."

"Are you going to buy her book?"

"No way. I'm a liberal and she's a born-again hater. She even said
about the 9/11 widows, `How do we know their husbands weren't planning
to divorce these harpies? Now that their shelf life is dwindling,
they'd better hurry up and appear in Playboy."'

"I heard Bill O'Reilly say the other night, `Stop Ann Coulter before
she bombs again. Most Americans reject that kind of vitriol because it
is mean and counterproductive. So, if Ann Coulter is trying to persuade
people to her view, the personal attacks are foolish."'

"Where do you think Ann Coulter buys all her broomsticks?"

"Probably at Wal-Mart. That's where she bought them for her other
books."
Post by veritas
http://www.newsmax.com/poll/coulter/?PROMO_CODE=2131-1
Steve Hayes
2006-06-18 02:28:28 UTC
Permalink
Post by v***@lycos.com
Post by veritas
A useful poll on Ann Coulter . She was unforgetable when I saw her on C-SPAN
Yes she is very unforgetable....
The Flying Witch of 9/11
By Art Buchwald
A BROOMSTICK in my closet was missing. I asked someone about it and he
said, "Ann Coulter took it."
"What did she do with it?" I asked.
"She's flying around on it as a witch, looking for more 9/11 widows for
a follow-up book called `The Coulter Code."'
I said, "She's a very busy witch. This is her fifth broomstick."
He said, "She loves to ride around attacking anyone who will help her
sell books. She went on the `Today' show defending her statements about
the widows and said the four were part of the `left's doctrine of
infallibility' and they were using grief `in order to make a political
point while preventing anyone from responding."'
"I saw something like that," I said. "Didn't she also say that all the
widows wanted to do was make millions of dollars? She said, `These
broads are millionaires, lionised on TV and in articles about them,
reveling in their status as celebrities and stalked by grief-arazzies.
I've never seen people enjoy their husband's deaths so much."'
I continued, "Coulter doesn't mention how much money she hopes to make
on the book. Do you think she's crossed the line?"
"That's one of her specialties -- crossing the line. She's done it in
her other books, on television and radio, and in her column. Even Bill
O'Reilly said she went too far over the line."
I said, "I call her the Witch of 9/11. I don't even like her hair."
What does any of this have to do with Orthodoxy?
--
The unworthy deacon,
Stephen Methodius Hayes
Contact: http://www.geocities.com/Athens/7734/stevesig.htm
Orthodox mission pages: http://www.orthodoxy.faithweb.com/
michael james
2006-06-18 03:04:19 UTC
Permalink
Post by Steve Hayes
Post by v***@lycos.com
Post by veritas
A useful poll on Ann Coulter . She was unforgetable when I saw her on C-SPAN
Yes she is very unforgetable....
The Flying Witch of 9/11
By Art Buchwald
A BROOMSTICK in my closet was missing. I asked someone about it and he
said, "Ann Coulter took it."
"What did she do with it?" I asked.
"She's flying around on it as a witch, looking for more 9/11 widows for
a follow-up book called `The Coulter Code."'
I said, "She's a very busy witch. This is her fifth broomstick."
He said, "She loves to ride around attacking anyone who will help her
sell books. She went on the `Today' show defending her statements about
the widows and said the four were part of the `left's doctrine of
infallibility' and they were using grief `in order to make a political
point while preventing anyone from responding."'
"I saw something like that," I said. "Didn't she also say that all the
widows wanted to do was make millions of dollars? She said, `These
broads are millionaires, lionised on TV and in articles about them,
reveling in their status as celebrities and stalked by grief-arazzies.
I've never seen people enjoy their husband's deaths so much."'
I continued, "Coulter doesn't mention how much money she hopes to make
on the book. Do you think she's crossed the line?"
"That's one of her specialties -- crossing the line. She's done it in
her other books, on television and radio, and in her column. Even Bill
O'Reilly said she went too far over the line."
I said, "I call her the Witch of 9/11. I don't even like her hair."
What does any of this have to do with Orthodoxy?
she's an American Icon :)
Steve Hayes
2006-06-18 02:26:58 UTC
Permalink
Post by veritas
A useful poll on Ann Coulter . She was unforgetable when I saw her on C-SPAN
Who is she?

Is she associated with Bisdhop Tikhon and the OCA financial scandal?

In what sense did she "go too far"? Criticising the hierarchy?
--
The unworthy deacon,
Stephen Methodius Hayes
Contact: http://www.geocities.com/Athens/7734/stevesig.htm
Orthodox mission pages: http://www.orthodoxy.faithweb.com/
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